Keeping a Fiero on the road is a daunting task, there's no doubt about it. The older they get, the more that needs to be looked after. But that's what makes them so great. You get to know your car(s). I'm a lot happier futzing around with 5 old Fieros than one new SUV. I wouldn't even know where to begin with one of these new things. So good luck, David, and don't be shy here.

None of us know very much but together we know a bit more.

Fred Clarke - East Greenwich RI 02818 -- The Bozone

To be true automobile enthusiast, you look for the character of the automobile rather than its 0 - 60 time. I enjoy driving cars with character, not necessarily speed. My favourite car was the Bug-Eye Sprite. It had neither acceleration or comfort, but was fun to drive. I do not wish to drive a 11 to 15 year old car and pretend it accelerates and handles like a '99 megabuck sports car. If I wanted that type of vehicle, I would buy a new one and save myself the headaches and constant maintenance an older car demands.

I slowly and carefully restored an old Fiero (yes a 4 cyl) to its former glory because I enjoy driving a car that is not state of the art. To me, the Fiero has real character. I look forward to driving it as a treat on a nice sunny day with the windows open instead of turning on the air conditioning and feeling isolated from the road. I also appreciate the accomplishment that I brought this car back to life.

I especially enjoy the stares I get from people who don't recognize a Fiero or those who are amazed at how well it's kept. I hope more Fiero drivers look at their cars and see a piece of automotive history rather than a kick-ass piece of metal (plastic) that they can beat some other car with!!

Enjoy your car for what it is and not what you hope it could be.
John Good
Richards Landing, ON
St. Joseph Island's Only Fiero

And now for the Disclaimers. None of these articles or collections have been written by myself.
I have been clipping postings from the web for over two years and found that it is easier to use in an HTML format
I save any which sound like I will need the information in the future. By comparing different methods from various sources I hope to have a foresight into what I will run into when I tackle a problem.
Some of the ideas and methods may contradict or just SEEM to contradict another.
But knowing this BEFOREHAND greatly eases anticipation of the unknown.
I use the HAYNES, CHILTON and the HELM'S FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for my 86 GT. And with the experiences and explanations from the FieroList my GT is still running better and better all the time.

Any copyright to any of this material belongs to the writer of the material.

NO owner or moderator of any Fiero newsgroup, list, club, or web site has authorized this archive. Nor shall they be in any way responsible for the use or misuse of this information. (or me either!)

If you are the author of any of the following and wish it to be clarified,edited or deleted just email me.

If anyone wishes to add to this collection, email me.
Please, use a subject line of 'fiero web page' for any correspondence. Thank you. :^ )
peace, T
email:Tommy Evans

And of course, don't forget the original--Sketch's Online Service Guide

Q&A at the Fiero Factory
Questions and answers by Ed Parks at the Fiero Factory in Alabama.

Paul Mckibbens FieroSecrets
A Truly Great collection of Fiero Links
"a list of Fiero-related web sites, e-mail addresses, and information sources"

Cracks around wing stands---
Caused by vibration and flexing due to spoiler. Common problem. Cure is to add a 18-14 gauge steel plate about 4 x 6 inches on the underside of the decklid and run the mounting bolts through it. You can get the metal at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. and cut with Aviation shears or hacksaw to fit.

mirror control-manual- The repair kit is made by Tom Derr, 248 Indian Creek Drive, Mechanicsburg, P a, 17055-2526 Kits are/were $8.55 postpaid.
Changing the skin is easy. You have three screws for the inner door armrest, two screw of the door handle itself, and eight or so phillips screws (rubberized) around the front and back inside along the edges.

There are four rubber rivets - use a slim punch to push the center up inside and pull out the rivets - save them if possible. The hardest part is the mirror. Getting to those nuts on the inside are a bit difficult but possible. Remove the door trim from the front back to the door handle. Be careful but you'll probably break most of the plastic clips.

When it's loose, slide the skin up allowing the edge against the glass to slide out. You're done. Reverse the procedure to install the new one.

The outer door handle comes off with the skin - there is a rod with a spring clip that has to be undone - but you'll see it. Happy skinning your Fiero.
One other caution. You might be able to get a door skin that matches your car color. You also have to consider that if you search out the right color, it helps to keep the trim on the skin too. Try not to get the square trim if your car has rounded. There is one rivet that doesn't have to be removed if you can leave the trim on the skin being used.
84 door panels will not fit on 85+ doors, 85+ panels will not fit on 84 doors. The panels mount differently, 85+ uses a 'lip' to hold the top edge, 84 panels used plastic pushpins.
You can swap the entire door, just not the panels.
The door panel is removed by taking off the window crank (unless it was power windows), the arm rest, and that black plastic inner door handle trim plate. There are two hidden screws (one is behind the little black Fiero emblem next to the inner door handle and the other is on the arm rest). You have to carefully pop these little square covers off with a small screwdriver.
Disconnect the locking rod from the sliding lock knob and carefully pull the pop fasteners free from around the edges of the door panel. This job is not too tough, but don't get in a hurry because it's easy to break something if you try using brute force.
Now you sticking lock/handle remove your door panel and clean & lube everything then clean and lube it again. And just before you put the door panel back on clean and lube everything one more time. It has probably been 13+ years since it was clean in there. All kidding aside the solenoids on the locks get grungy and can be cleaned with spray lube (WD40) or something similar. It is also a good time to clean all the rods, levers and window slides. It will make a world of difference.
Good Luck Dave Bonner Haysville, KS
On my car, I found the door still rattled on the receiver pin on the latch side. I loosened the receiver pin, adjusted it up, tightened it and the rattle was gone.
Mike had loose hinge bolts inside the door and had to tear apart the whole door, skin and interior to get to the bolts. --------
I suggest squirting some oil on the hinges all around the car at every oil change. Maybe we can keep the bushing wear down to a minimum. Kirk Madsen
Hinge Pins and Bushings.
The procedure is pretty much the same for each car and either door. You start by knocking out the hinge pin with a long 3/16" center punch. Let the door hang on the bottom hinge, or a small jack can be used especially if your are alone. Next knock out the bushing, top and bottom. We used the same tools. Here comes the neat tool. Purchase a 6" threaded rod, 2 flat washers, and 2 nuts. Put the bottom bushings over the rod on the top of the washer and bottom nut, slip the bushing into place and if you want you can start it by tapping it into the hinge, anyway the top of the rod is going to be above the top of the hinge. You can elect to put the top bushing over the rod, put on the washer then the nut or do them one at a time then tighten down on the nuts, thus squeezing the bushings into the hinge. Take out the tool. Grease the bushing. Align the door with the jack or a buddy. Drive in the pin from the bottom. Done deal.
For the door that is hard to shut, you need new hinge pins and bushings.
I recently purchased replacements at AutoZone. ORileys has the same ones, only they were about $2 each more. They are in the bubble pack "HELP!" packages. I believe by MotorMite? And are for an S10 Pick-up. Also they are about 1/4 inch longer than original, I stuck mine to a grinder but don't think you really have to. Fairly easy to replace, I used a jack to hold up the door and one at a time.
The door hinge pins are no longer available, but they are a generic GM item (Chevy S-10). The Part number of the replacement is 20043351 (about $2.50 each). The retainers and bushings are still available (P/N 2042 9500, under $1 each). ------------
(Motormite brand) where they have all kind of misc. parts for all type of cars, they had S10 hinge pin & bushing kits. $5.19 each. So I purchased the only one they had P/N 38407. The pin is goldentone not black like original. Decided to stop at AutoZone down the road and check their stock. They had several at $3.99 ea. same part number. The package says it fits: 1994-82 S10 Blazer, Jimmy, Pickups 1994-85 Astro, Safari Vans.
Dew Wipes--------------------
The dew wipes are a common problem with our cars, not at all surprising with a car that is 10-15 yrs. old.
You will need to remove the inner door panel, the rubber triangle thingys at right(top) and left(top) of the door, and the metal molding strip the holds the top of the inner door panel on.
The real problem with replacing the dew wipes is that the two center screws are not accessible since the window does not wind all the way down. Several opinions on how to go about attacking this exist, I prefer to simply pry the old strip off of the screws with a small flat blade screw driver. The dew strip is made of very very thin aluminum, and it will pry off the screws quite easily. You can then use a pair of pliers to back out the already loose screws.
Regardless of the method used to remove the old dew wipes, I would highly recommend replacement of the problem screws with some small hex head sheet metal screws for ease of removal in the future. For those who prefer alternatives, I would suggest contacting Rodney Dickman
about a tool he has recently developed for this purpose. Here's his web page ->
The best prices I have found on these so far are from Chriswell Chevrolet:

Outer Dew wipe: (part # 20606220 & 20606221) $20.63 ea.
Inner Dew wipe: (part # 20320534 & 20320535) $14.93 ea.

Chriswell Chevrolet
503 Quince Orchard Rd.
Gaithersburg, Md. 20878

Dealer phone 301-948-0880
Parts Dept. 888-466-9101
Parts Dept. Fax 301-670-0936
Parts Dept. direct 301-590-1458

Ask for Kevin Burdette in the parts dept. and identify yourself as a Fiero list member to get the "trade" price and free shipping on any GM parts.
My son and I did a dew wipe replacement last year. With inner door panel and outer skin removed it is easy to see how to remove and replace the dew wipes. The hard part is reaching two self-tapping Phillips head screws in the center area of the dew wipes. I found the easiest way to reach them is drill 1/4" access holes through the metalwork. Replacement is then a simple exercise. Regards,Paul McKibben
I recently posted some erroneous information about removing the two "difficult" screws during the dew wipe replacement process. My leaky memory is at fault and I apologize to anyone who tried to use the information. I just looked at my donor car to refresh my memory, and here is the procedure I used to remove the two screws which are difficult to access: With the outer door skin removed:

(1) Grind off the points of the two "difficult" screws with a small grinding wheel on a Dremel tool until they are about flush with the sheet metal.

(2) Drill a 1/4" access hole for each screw from the outside, then drill out what remains of the two offending screws with a 1/8" bit (protecting the window glass from the drill bit with a scrap of sheet aluminum or similar).

(3) Replace the two difficult screws with small machine screws, lock washers, and nuts.

My memory is terrible. Sorry to be so misleading with my previous information.
Paul McKibben
Easiest way to do it is to remove inner and outer door panels, all the inner pieces you need to get to the inner wipe, cut a small 'notch' out of the door frame that's behind eat screw on the outside. These screws were self tapping, and so they have a notch in them on each side. Grab that with a pair of wire cutters and unscrew them. When you reinstall, put the screws in from the outside.
It is not necessary to remove the outer door skins, or drill any extra holes in your Fiero to replace the dew wipes. After removing the inner door panel, loosen the two stabilizer bolts on top of the door. Then remove the back and center window tracks from inside the door. They are bolted in and are easy to remove and I took the opportunity to clean and lubricate the tracks. With the window down, remove the accessible screws holding the outer wipe and remove the inner wipe retainer and inner wipe. Support the window while raising the window to the full up position. You will be able to pull it back a little in the remaining track and pull up just enough to get to the last two screws. Do not forget that the mirror attachment nuts also hold the outer wipes in place. When doing this replacement, make sure you replace the outer and inner wipes, as well as the stabilizer pads. Clean the built up dirt and grime from the bottom of the glass and say good-by to window scratches. Gene Gene
It's really not that difficult to remove the glass. I've done it several times and now can remove the glass in 10 minutes. I was a little concerned with my 87 GT when I realized there was less access to the glass than with my 84 SE, but it still wasn't too bad. My method does require the purchase of a thread insert gun and thread inserts (example NAPA #770-2875 & 1/4-20 thread inserts #770-2880).

1) Remove the interior panel in the usual way.

2) Remove the inner panel support at rear of door (for access).

Note: Carefully drive the rivet stems out of the rivets. Use a drill with a 1/4 inch drill bit and 'slowly' drill out the head (use a variable speed 3/8 drill motor). The head should pop off. If not a slight side to side movement of the drill bit should break it loose.

Don't worry too much the through hole is 1/4" so no irreparable damage should occur.

3) Remove the armrest support in the same manner, a little more access.

4) Remove the vapor barrier.

5) Position the glass and, carefully, drive the rivet stems out of the rivets holding the up-stop bumpers. Remove the up-stops. Now do the same for the two glass mounts.

With a little caution remove the glass.

Note: Watch the little a-pillar guide on the front of the glass and the two plugs in the glass. They will tend to catch on the strip as the glass is removed.
6) Replace the belt strip.

7) With a 3/8 drill bit enlarge the rivet holes. Be careful here, the tolerance range for the holes is 0. 375/0.379 Dia. Install the thread inserts.

Note: you may want to use an intermediate 5/16" drill bit. I believe I will.
8) The attachment for the up-stops and glass mounts pose a different problem. the hole in the metal washer has to be enlarged for a thread insert. Firstly, the washer has to be removed from the plastic housing, which is most likely quite brittle. I heated mine in the oven at about 250 F.

This gives the plastic a little ductility for removing the washers so as not to break the plastic.
Once off, the holes can be enlarged. I used two "vice-grips" to hold the washer. Install the thread inserts and insert the washers back into the, hopefully undamaged, plastic housing.

9) Reinstall the glass into the door 'before' re-installing the plastic components with their new nut plates.

Note: It is a little tight, but can be managed.
- Jerry Clasby Salisbury, NC
Just grab the end of the screws from the outside with a pair of wire cutters (don't cut the screws) and unscrew them. Replace the dew wipe, reinstall the screws from the outside edge instead of the inside.

If you want to make it easier, use a hacksaw and cut a small square piece of the metal blocking the back of the screw off.

Easier, faster and more secure than removing the factory rivets and replacing them with screws and inserts. ----------------

FIERO\Body\Misc. Repairs
Tail Light Lens----
Meguires Plastic cleaner and polish #17 and #10, if the scratches aren't too deep. If they are deep there's a number on the polish to call Meguires for further help. If you just have the typical dust scratches that are clouding the lens, I think you'll be amazed at how well the Meguires Plastic Polish works.
trunk cleaner- called Armor All Tire Cleaner and Shine. It's not a silicone, but somehow it deep cleans it and makes it look totally flat black and gets rid of the brownish crap that forms from brake dust and engine degreaser on the tires. It's the foaming stuff in the black spray can. --------------------------------
How hard would it be to install a trunk latch to my car? Is it possible, if it does not have one now?
Usually not that hard. The car should be wired up for it already. You'll need to find a switch & trim plate, an actuator, a relay, and the wire that runs through the trunk lid. Plug everything together (relay goes under the dash, by your right leg if you are seated in the driver's side) and it is done.

DuPont makes an excellent BC/CC system. Their ChromaBase and associated products are easy to use and give great finishes. They are just a little bit expensive compared to other similar paints. I would make sure to use the "high solids" clear. Different companies have different names for it. Your paint guy will know what I mean. It is a high build clear, requiring only two coats to achieve full film thickness, instead of three for standard clears. You use less materials, and it offsets the costs of using the more expensive clear. BTW- I only used about 1.5 quarts of base coat (before thinning) and 2 quarts of high build clear (when mixed makes about 2.5 quarts) Don't let them charge you for a gallon of base coat or a gallon of clear!
Flexible primers are almost always urethane based. I suspect you are looking at similar products. 3M markets a flexible primer for RIM in an aresol can that can make it much easier and less expensive for small jobs. Most automotive paint supply stores carry this product. Buying quarts of flexible urethane primer and a gallon of thinner can add up to big bucks fast!
As for Bondo and Fieros? From my experience, NEVER, NEVER mix the two.
Use a good SMC repair compound or Vette Panel Adhesive Filler.
Good luck!
Randy Agee
The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA
FieroZone -----------------------------
This is whats on the front of the can Mar-Hyde : is the Brand Name Black Satin Automotive Trim Coating No.3811 up code 834633811 Good luck but what a buy from only 3.99$
Go to your local Auto Paint store and look up the new code for the '98 Trans Am. It has a Beautiful Purple Fine Metallic Paint that really Glows. Guaranteed you will like it.Eric Dallas, TX
---------------------- using bc/cc urethane on front & rear fascia--- no flex agent needed------
Preferred procedure for refinishing RIM covers is to sand off all old paint with 240 to 320 grit dry paper on a DA sander, or 320 to 400 grit wet by hand - do not use automotive paint remover. Recoat with a flexible RIM primer/sealer Cover with base color only enough to get solid color Spray ONE double coat of clear Done
Randy Agee "Old Paint and Body Man" The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA

On the Flex agent. You can use a flex agent both in the K36 and clearcoat but PPG only says this is needed if you plan on painting the panels off the car and then will be installing them. This idem is really meant for the front and rear fascia. PPG tells me that the two stage system(basecoat/clearcoat) is flexible enough as is. But they did say that it would give you better flexibility by adding it. So I did on the car panels but on things like side molding you can do without to save some $.

One more thing. The primer/surfacer, basecoat, and clearcoat all use a hardener. The primer/surfacer and the clearcoat also use a reducer(thinner). You need to mix these together before you spray. Like on the info below on the K36

Mix: K36(5):K201(1):DT885(.5)

This means 5 parts K36 to 1 part K201 hardener to .5 parts DT885 Reducer

These mixing ratios would change if you plan on adding the DX814 flex agent. You can get "P" sheets(product sheets) from your paint supplier or through PPG's FAXBack service on each product. They will show you the right mixing ratio along with drying times, pot life, temp ranges...etc.

And you thought this would be easy!

-- Product: DX330 Use: Wax and Grease Remover

-- Product: DPX801 (Plastic Sealer) Mix: Shoot out of can Coat: 1 medium, shoot whole car to adhesion Cover Time: 30min to 24hour Sand: NO

-- Product: K36 (Primer/Surfacer) Mix: K36(5):K201(1):DT885(.5) Coat: 2-3 with 10-15min. between coats, shoot whole car Desired Thickness: 2-6mils Cover Time: 1hour to 72hours, Re-sand after 72hours before over coating Sand: 400 dry

-- Product: BDU (Base) Mix: DBU(2):DRR1170(1-2) Coat: Until Color lock-out (2-3 coats with 10-15min between coats) Cover Time: 1hour to 24hours Sand: NO!

-- Product: DCU2001 (Clear) Mix: DCU2001(2):DU7(1):DT885(1) Coat: 2-4 with 10-15min. between coats Desired Thickness: 2-6mils Sand: 2000 wet Polish: block and/or buff right after 16hours

-- E-mail me if you need any other info, Steven 84SE 85GT 87GT

It ended up costing me over $1000 for all the paints, primers, hardeners, reducers, flex agents, and degreasers. This included the black paint for the trim. I bought all at a local auto paint supplier. They said I was paying what the bodyshops pay. I'm not so sure though.

Here's some numbers. All are PPG products.
DX330 Degreaser $18.65

DPX801 Plastic primer $31.95

K36 Primer/Surfacer $84.30 K201 Hardener $38.20 DX814 FlexAgent $21.45

DBU Topcoat(1995 Corvette Yellow) $124.65 (Could go as high as $250 for Reds)

DU5 Hardener $84.00 DT870 Reducer $25.60

DCU2001 Clearcoat $99.60 DRR1170 Hardener $58.90 DX814 FlexAgent $21.45

DAU single stage basecoat for all trim(black) $38.80 DAU2 Hardener $29.40 Flattening agent $22.05 DT870 Reducer (Had some from above)
--------------- Total $699.00

Then add another $100 for sandpaper, tack rags, cleanup thinner, mixing cups and lint free wipes(used with the degreaser). Oh ya 3M Perfect-It Buffing supplies
Buffing Compound $10 Polish $9 Glaze $9 Swirl-remover $10 Wax $11 Buffing Pads $50
----- Total $99
Steven "Steven W. Kovich" ----------------

A Great Paint FAQ

If you use PPG products like DP40 primer...K200 surface/contour...and any of their Polyurethane Colors like Starthane or will get a tremendous "Mercedes" type paint job, without a clear coat...although you can still clear coat if you must. Materials might run $300, but they are temperature limited, so if you are going to do this...get cracking. Have Fun David Breeze

I used VHT hi-temp red paint (not the orange) and it looks great. It is a little brighter than the red on my manifolds originally, but still quite good. On the lower,middle and heads I used Krylon Hi-Temp Aluminum. It is a bright silver color, and looks fantastic, even two years later.

For more information see "How to Paint Your Car" by David H Jacobs, jr. 1991. Published by Motorbooks International Publishers and Wholesalers, P.O. Box 2, 729 Prospect Ave, Osceola Wi 54020, USA (my copy cost $7.00, but list is $14.95) They offer a free catalog by request to Box 1 at the address above.
I bought this book before putting the coupe fascia on my GT and painting the ground effects to match the body color. Very basic stuff, good for someone (me!) who had no experience. I think the most help came from the Helm's Service Manual, T.

1) Always use masking tape made for painting ( or automotive painting(3M brand)) its a little more expensive but it is made to with stand the solvents that are added to the paint and primers.

2) Try to use a brown craft paper ( similar to that used on paper grocery bags) it is thick than newspaper , and will hold up better.

3) with base coat/ clear coat applications(can't speak for all so talk to people or get a pamphlet from the company) the base coat(color coat) will dry in 45min to1.5hrs depending on the conditions(temp and humidity) you then have 24 hours to apply the clear coat before any sanding or scuffing of the base coat is needed. Or you can clearcoat it after the after applying the basecoat according to the paint manufact. specifications.

4) Since the basecoat dries so quickly, you can paint the stripes on. the basecoat will be dry enough to apply tape to the surface to mask off your design or stripes. then you can paint the stripes on and they will be sealed underneath the clearcoat.

5) When applying the basecoat and or stripes, apply just enough paint to cover the primer so that you have a even THIN layer of paint. 2 med coats or 3 light coats

6)There are 2 part Urethane primers out there which do not require the use of a sealer as does a lacquer primer would. this primer is more costly but elimates a step It uses a harder, similar to that of an enamel paint, to make a durable surface to paint on, it needs to be sanded down with 400 grit , and the paint will not absorb into it to cause such problems as sand scratch swelling. BTW the paint system mentioned above is for NAPA brand. I would recommend PPG, but I am not that familiar with that system. The people at NAPA are more than willing to help (atleast here in Buffalo) with any questions or concerns. ALSO THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TOO! CHECK THE TEMP AND HUMIDITY FOR THE DAY YOU ARE PAINTING ON, THE THINNERS AND REDUCERS FOR THE PAINT AND CLEARCOAT ARE TEMP AND HUMID. SPECIFIC


1. Start with 360 grit WSP (wet sand paper for short). When the paper is new, don't sand too hard. You just want to make the paint look dull. Also, any chips or lows should be sanded to a feather edge (run your fingers over it till it feels smooth). If you notice places that are low, you will need to either fill them with primer (if it isn't too low) or fill it with spot putty (if it is more drastic) and re-sand to a smooth, level surface. Follow procedures that come with the spot putty (some require putty being put over primer, some not, etc). Do the whole car this way. It is hard to do the door jams and rocker panels. But this is the difference between a good paint job and a cheap paint job.

2. Coat the panels with a good primer. Use a flexible primer for the nose and rear bumper and a good standard primer for the other panels (some have disagreed here, but from experience, the flexible primer doesn't crack as easy as standard primer. The nose and rear bumper panels are prone to get bumped). You don't have to do the whole car (I didn't primer the roof at all), but definitely do the nose and rear bumper. Use primer where you have done a lot of sanding (spots, edges, etc). When the car is dry after sanding, it should appear very dull. IMPORTANT: Any time you are putting paint or primer on the car, wipe off the panels with a good wax/greese remover just before painting (obviously, this doesn't mean you use this between base coats and clear, etc).

3. Go over the whole car with 400 WSP twice. The panels should feel very smooth. Prime or putty lows as necessary and re-sand.


1. Tape up the whole car where you don't want paint applied (windows,gaskets, trim panels, etc). Use a good brand of masking tape and good paper (some use newspaper which is okay). Let me know if you need better details of taping, it is assumed that you can figure out how to do the taping well and efficiently. Remember, overspray will get everywhere! (wheel wells,under the car, etc). PAINT IMPORTANT: You need to have good conditions to start painting (follow directions). A dust free environment is the key to a good paint job and a lot less ultra fine sanding and polishing. Before painting, most spray down the floor and walls with water (water hose) very liberally to trap free floating particles (dust) that may get into the paint. As far as what gun/pressure/paint to use, ask the auto paint store, etc.

1. You need to go over the whole car with a good wax/greese remover. This is also important when priming above. If you have any oils (say from your fingers, etc) on the paint, the finished product will raise and or have orange peel texture (not good).

2. You need to follow close directions on the actual painting, which I am not 100% good at.. From what I understand, you need to shoot a coat of sealer on the panels. The wait a specified time. Then, start with the base coat with a few light coats just to get the color right and even, no more needed. Then you have to wait a specified time to shoot the clear coat. The clear is a lot harder to do. A lot of light coats to keep from having runs.Wait a specified time to cure.


1. Simple, just remove what tape you have applied. Some people will wait a day before removing the tape. We waited about 3 hours. Just be careful removing the tape. Also be careful not to press your fingers, body, ect up against the paint, as it is still not yet hardened. In fact, it can take up to a year to fully harden, but after a day or so, it is hard enough to wash,drive, etc. In these stages (under a year), it is IMPORTANT not to let any bird crap or tree sap, etc on the paint as it will eat right through it.


1. Starting with 1200 WSP, lightly wet sand the whole car. Go in one direction, not in a circular direction or in two 90 degree directions. Move on to 2000 WSP and do the same thing.

2. Using a good polish and an orbital buffer, lightly polish the paint as directions should state with polish.


Recommended to wait 1-2 weeks after fresh paint has been applied.

1. If you are doing, say, a racing stripe over the car, measure out each panel and get the stripes cut for each length (it is hard enough to handle with small pieces) with a little added to be sure. We used a vinyl striping material from a sign shop that was cut by a computer cutter.

2. I recommend using vinyl application fluid (ask the sign shop where to get some). Some people just use water with a SMALL tad amount of liquid soap.The vinyl application fluid dries much faster than the water/soap and still gives you plenty of time to move around into position.

3. With a heavy coat of application fluid, place the stripes on the panel as close to where you want it as possible. Fine adjust the stripes to where you want them (measure) and use a good squeegee to get the air bubbles and fluid out. I used a hair dryer to mold the vinyl around the edges. Hope this helps you.Steven L. Huskins
From: "Steven W. Kovich" To: "GARY GRAHAM"
I finished painting my 87GT last fall and will be finishing the trim pieces this spring.(it need to be 60 degrees or above to spray this stuff) I used the PPG line of paints and all the products below are PPG. I ended up taking a class at the local collage by me on auto painting. It cost me $150 and you can even bring your project to class to do. On plastic. First, I would start by wet sanding all the parts you plan to paint. Everyone I've talked to recommends wet sanding plastic parts and not using any type of chemical strippers.
Start with 220grit and when you removed the about 60-70% of the old paint then move to 320grit. If the old paint is in good shape. As in not cracking, chipping, breaking down. Then you really down need to remove it all. If this is true you can just rough it up with the sand paper.
Two, The next step will depend on how far you went on the wet sanding. If your old paint was ok and you just used the sandpaper to rough things up you can move right to the K36 primer. But, it you sanded through to the plastic you will need to use the DPX801 plastic sealer to help the K36 primer adhere to the plastic. Before applying the primers clean with DX330 and use a tack rag. I myself removed all the old paint on the trim and used DPX801 first. One light coat of DPX801 then 2-3 coats of K36.
K36 is a primer/surfacer and is not only used prime but is used to build up the surface and sand smooth with a block. This hides imperfection. I put three coats on and then dry sanded the surface smooth before applying the topcoat(color). Plus sanding the K36 before topcoating will always give you a smooth surface. Dry sand the K36 with 400grit. Third, Apply the DBU basecoat until you achieve hiding. This should be 2-3 coats. Before applying the basecoat clean with DX330 and use a tack rag.
Fourth, Clearcoat with DCU2001 clear. 2-3 coats will do it. You can get away with 2 coats if you shoot it on smooth but if you have some orange peal (which most inexperienced painters will) then apply 3 coats and wet sand the clear with 1500grit sandpaper and then buff it to a shine.
See 3M's web site for buffing compounds and polishes at

Its called Zinc Chromate. Most paint supply places have it. It also comes in rattle cans.
I use imron Vari-prime. It is awesome and flexible

Note: SMC is "Sheet Molded Compound". Hood, Decklid, Top, Rear Shell.

R-RIM is "Reinforced Reaction Injected Molded Urethane". Doors, panel behind doors, front fenders.

TPO is "Thermo Plastic Olefin". Coupe rocker panels and GT ground effects.

Front and rear bumper covers are made of just plain RIM.

Randy Agee The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA
If the tear is located in a high-stress area, namely the upper corners of the facia where the fender/bumper facia/hood meet, then the answer is no. I bought some 3M 2-part facia repair material for just this condition on an '86 with aero-nose. It didn't work. The product is good for non-stress tears, though. I bought it about 3 years ago.
The stuff is called "3M Flexible Parts Repair Material" Kit #1. Part No. 051144-05900. Price: $25.
Unlike a fiberglass repair, this material stays flexible with the facia.
I would suggest a product made by SEM. It is SMC Repair Compound, part number 39518. It is two part, you squeeze equal amounts from each tube and mix. Then apply like putty. It works well on everything on the Fiero exterior EXCEPT the RIM front and rear bumper covers. You can shape it and sand it after it cures. Finish with a flexible polyester glazing and filling putty before painting.
Most likely you will only find it in professional auto paint supply stores.
Regular old Bondo will also work only on the SMC panels. But, I personally have had some problems with Bondo on SMC panels in the past.
(NEVER use Bondo on R-RIM or RIM). It is fine for a year or so, then it may crack. I have not had this problem with the SMC Repair Compound.
SEM also has a similar product for the front and rear flexible RIM bumper covers. It also works really good.
There are other brand names of SMC compound that "may" work equally as well.
Randy Agee The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA
reinforce the repair taper with several layers of fiberglass cloth.
The schematic shows the best practice for repairing a hole in SMC. An SMC patch panel is used as a backing plate and is epoxied to the backside. The repair taper is then filled with alternating layers of 2020 SMC Hardset epoxy and 2043-U Uni-Cloth fiberglass cloth.
If an SMC backing panel can't be used, make a backing patch by alternating layers of epoxy and fiberglass cloth to simulate the SMC's structure.
Reinforce any hole or crack in SMC with an SMC backing panel or backing patch made from alternating layers of fiberglass cloth and adhesive. The repair taper should also be reinforced with layers of fiberglass cloth to simulate the structure of the SMC.
--------------------- wrote:
List, I have a semi-circle tear about the diameter of a half dollar on the rear corner of the rear fascia. Is there any way to fix a RIM bumper cover? It is off the car & I want it to be able to flex w/o cracking after I repaint the car. Should I take it to a body shop for fixing or toss it out and get another one? Thanks Jason
Easy as pie.
Just buy a RIM repair kit, apply the screen patch and fill as per directions. Inexpensive, easy and looks like new if done properly. NAPA sells one, so does AutoZone. SEM is my prefered brand though.
Randy Agee The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA
I personally prefer SEM VOC LINE materials available at most auto body supply stores. Small package is No. 39927 Flexible SEM-WELD, you will need your own piece of window screen or glass cloth to use as a backup. You can also use Duramix #4039 Flexible Plastic Repair compound. It comes in a 20cc dispenser.
Randy Agee

Automotive/aircraft paint strippers are really strong. So strong, in fact, that they can soften RIM....permanently. Standard strippers are not usually strong enough to remove the OEM finish when used as directed.

But, there is an "unofficial" shortcut that can reduce your elbow grease on the RIM covers. First step is to sand the finish to scratch it, degloss, and give a stripper something to grip to. Second step is to apply a "MILD" furniture stripper - I like 3M Safe Stripper - comes in a black plastic jug, it is not flamable and the fumes won't kill you.

Put it on thick, do not keep brushing, sort of dab it on. Third step is to immediately completely cover everything with plastic - I use a 99 cent drop cloth - to totally exclude any air...... sort of like putting it in a baggie. It is OK for the plastic to contact the stripper and cover. Let it sit in a cool spot overnight. Do not do this in the sunlight or when it is really hot. The plastic will keep the stripper from drying out and allow it to "work". Since it is a MILD stripper it will take longer and should not soften the RIM.

The next day remove the plastic, reapply some more stripper and about 15 minutes later scrape of all the old finish you can with a plastic body putty applicator. Wash with a stong solution of Tide and warm water and a medimum stiff brush. Wear rubber gloves and goggles! How strong?

Well, I use power and put about a cup of Tide to a gallon of water. If necessary, you can repeat the process all over again once the water is dryed off.

Once you have cut the bulk of the finish off, let it harden again (maybe a day) and then sand the remainder off.

Big problem on RIM covers that causes cracking is too thick of a total paint film. Not a good idea to just paint over the existing finish on the cover. This is why you would not want to just paint over when using the same color. Keep your TOTAL film thickness to 5-6 mills MAX on RIM covers.

Also note the need for a FLEXIBLE primer before applying final finish. 3M makes one in spray cans that is nice for the home painter - saves a lot of money.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use a lacquer primer/surfacer or Bondo on RIM.

Hope this little trick helps you and some others - the baggie, mild stripper, and Tide/water solution are the key elements.
Randy Agee The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA

FIERO\Body\Water Leaks
Chris, this may or may not be your leak. The Phillips screw that goes through the spacer block on both sides of the trunk (2/3rd forward), goes "raw" all the way to the inside of the trunk. Have filled the spacer with RTV and stopped many trunk leaks. However, the Fastback trunk gasket is very weak, and may need replacement. -------------------
Our local dealer lists the sunroof Weatherstrip as GM part# 20528472 @$69.04. Our local club price is $51.78. I am sure Chriswell Chevrolet in Md. has a similiar price for list members.
Many times a washer/shim on the sunroof bracket assembly bolts will increase the pressure on the gasket, eliminating the leak.
Paul Vargyas Northern Illinois Fiero Enthusiasts

i use ameguires mirrorglaze use a no2 medium cut cleaner if the watter spots do not come out with a cleaner polish, use the meguires no6 cleaner wax then follow up with a no 26 leaves the car looking like it was dipped in polished glass to enrich the color and tone of the paint use a no7 glaze before using the no26 tis takes a little time the first application but it becomes easier to maintain as you go along usualy only have to use a 26 and 7 waxes and glaze to get that show ready look for normal driving the 26 by itself works with outstanding results, hope this helps,
FOR DEAD PAINT-- I've used Maguire's Crystal Clear system with good results. You'd be surprised how well it brings back oxidized paint.
It's a 3-step process.
Step one is a red "paint scrubber" which removed oxidation and light scratches.
Step 2 is a beige colored polish which will give your paint a deep shine(generally your paint will look great after step 2) .
Step 3 is yellow carnuba based wax which seals in the shine. Although I use their wax, any good wax would probably work well.
Bill Salina
Buff out the part with 3M compound #05928 to a shine. ( after 2000 wet&dry on clearcoat )
Use Meguiars number 1 of the three step bottle have to work it in and keep at it. Just don't wipe it on. You have to work it in and keep at it like you were polishing a piece of plastic... It is called "Paint Cleaner" and it removes scratches and such. I used that to restore the paint on the convertible and now I am using it on the 88 Formula. It will do wonders for dull paint (not real dull, as in oxidized,but it will help).

The handbrake is the "self adjusting" method of keeping the rear caliper pistons rotating out to compensate for brake pad wear. If not operable or used, then the rear brakes will gradually cease to be functionable. (this is usually found out during a "panic stop")
The front pistons should compress the same as any other front disks. The rear brakes cannot do that or the parking brakes wouldn't work. The pistons on the rear brakes unscrew to keep the pads close to the disk. Without this, the parking brake would not be able to put pressure on the disk. You need to screw the piston back in to retract them. Most auto supply stores have the tool that is used to screw them in.
You will need the tool if you want to adjust your e-brake so it works. The purpose of the tool is to turn the inner piston rather than the outer, so the two tabs on the brake pad stay engaged with the caliper's outer piston.
Unless they stay engaged, you won't be able to take up the slack of your e-brake by racheting the e-brake handle. I understand from the local brake shop (just having had them finish my brake job to make the e-brake work) that unless the piston and pad are within about 0.006-0.010 inches of each other, the pins won't engage and therefore the e-brake won't work.
A couple of years ago, a friend of mine had an '85 IROC-Z that had the sticking caliper. I replaced the rotor and all bearings/seals, the brake pads, and the caliper itself with a new one. Still had the same sticking brake problem. I was at my wits end with this thing, until another friend suggested that I replace the flexible rubber brake hose. Turns out that over time, the rubber decomposes from the inside out and acts like a check valve. Sure enough, I replaced the hose and the brakes were back to normal. The old hose looked perfect; no cracks or dry-rot marks. I tried to run compressed air in both sides. One direction was fine; the other was restricted.
Hope this helps you out. John Psolka
I highly recommend replacing the inner and outer bearings when installing a set of rotors that did not come from your car. I replaced the bearing and race for $11.00 per side. Money well spent!
brake pads... I really, really recommend GM pads They are the best for your car. Don't get the "lifetime" warranty pads. jason weglonski
What do I have to do to get the rear pistons back into the calipers? Please let me know asap, need the car and it's sitting with a dangling caliper right now... :( Thanks!
Take off the nut on the rear of the caliper, remove the bracket (you have to remove the e-brake cable too) and then put the nut back on, loosely. Now push the piston back in and put the bracket back on. The bracket (and internals) are stopping the piston from being pushed in. Some manuals suggest turning the piston to screw it back in, but I find that too hard .
FYI #9211 $137.13 Fiero '84-'88 4 line brake system

FIERO\Brakes\GrandAm upgrade
The first part of this job is to get the required parts.
There is a correction to the article though. Parts are Baretta thru '91. Grand-Am changed in '91, so DO NOT ask for Grand-Am parts from '91.
Randy Agee "The Fiero Ranch"
Fiero front rotors
Grand Am rotors or berreta
Grand Am pads or berreta
Grand Am calipers or berreta
The Grand Am parts I used came from an 88. My son had wrecked his Grand Am and I stripped it down before it went to the junkyard so I had most items.

You can use your rotors or pickup another set from the junkyard. If you use junkyard rotors, I would highly recommend the purchase of new bearings. The new bearings come with their bearing race and cost only $22.00 for a complete set.

Take your Fiero rotors and one of the Grand Am rotors to a machine shop. Tell them you need the Fiero rotors machined down so they will just barely fit into the rear of the Grand Am rotor. They have to just barely fit. This is how the Grand Am rotor is aligned to the Fiero hub. I paid $20.00 per rotor.

After the Fiero rotors and calipers are pulled you will need to do some grinding to allow for the wider Grand Am vented rotor. Let me try to explain where you need to grind. If this isn't clear, you will notice where you need to grind as soon as you try to install the Grand Am rotor.

You need to grind down two spots on the caliper-mounting bracket. You grind the side that the bolts stick through, the outside as you look at them on the car. Grind the two spots down until they are approximately 5/8 of an inch thick. I found it much easier to remove the mounting bracket, stick it in a vice and grind it down with a coarse belt on my belt sander. The 5/8-inch thickness will allow proper clearance for the rotor flex, and not interfere with the mounting bracket. This is VERY IMPORTANT! Without the properly amount of space to flex, you may scare the thicker rotors the first time you make a turn.

Once you have collected all the parts had your rotors modified and did the grinding you assemble everything and that's it.

I hope this helps. If part is unclear, feel free to ask any questions. If you are near Huntsville, AL come on over and I will give you a hand.
Rick Huntsville, AL
OK everybody, here is the complete story on the Grand-Am brake thing. The 84 thru 87 Fiero's all use the solid thinner rotors with the GM disk brake bolt patterned calipers that are the same as the Grand-Am. The difference between the Grand-Am and the Fiero is that the Grand-Am has the thicker, vented rotors in the front but they used drums in the rear back in the 84 thru 87 year models. So, if you wish to upgrade your 84 Thru 87 Fiero brakes to the vented design, here is what you do:

1. Remove the rear, non-vented rotor hats from your Fiero, slip the vented Grand-Am rotor hats on the hubs and bolt up the Grand-Am calipers. For the rear this is a direct, no modification required ordeal. The only catch is that you will lose your e-brake do to the fact that you are essentially using front wheel calipers on the rear and they don't have any provision for the e-brake.

2. For the front however it gets tricky. Since the Fiero uses the same type of front end set-up as the Chevette, that is that it uses rotor-hubs with bearings vise rotor hats that just slip onto the hubs, you must modify the existing Fiero rotor hubs to accept the Grand-Am rotor hats. To do this you must take your Fiero front rotor hubs and have them machined down so that all that is left is the bearing hub and the lug bolts. The entire rotor assembly must be machined off. This will allow the Grand-Am rotor hat to slip onto the hub much like the 88 Fiero works. But there's more. The Grand-am/Fiero caliper mounting pad must be slightly machined down to properly align the caliper to the rotor.

3. To answer the question of, why don't we all just bolt the 88 Fiero brakes onto the 84 thru 87 Fiero? The answer is you can't, the 88 uses a totally different caliper and bolt design which means that you would have to change out the "A" arms with it which is near impossible due to the fact that they bolt on at totally different locations than the 84 thru 87 Fiero's suspension.

4. The Grand-am conversion is a worth while modification if you are very hard on your brakes or autocross it regularly. My personal advise would be to just convert the front brakes and leave the rears solid thereby retaining the e-brake. Many hi-perf vehicles that are much heavier than the Fiero use the vented in front/solid in back design and it works great for them, should work just fine for us. I have pushed my brakes past there limits once or twice, but I was really doing things that I shouldn't have been doing, i.e. 137 mph on the way to Vegas trying to keep close to a 98 vette, he walked away from me at will by the way.

Hope this helps all out there that have been thinking about this conversion.
Take care.
Bought the parts from Advanced Auto and did all the work my self. Got two sets of from calipers for a 91 berreta and 4 rotors from 91 berreta.
91 berreta has same brakes as a 89 GrandAm.
take off from rotors like the haynes manual says.
get the rotors machined down to fit under the berreta rotors.
put back in reverse order and add the rotors over ground down old-front rotors changed the master cylinder to a 94 4x4 full size blazer bleed the brakes.
Nothing was hard...just turning a wrench.
look at the webpage
for real good details On that web page they say use longer studs... one car i did, one car i did not. not really needed.

------------------or Ed William's Page----------------

GrandAm Brakes


FIERO\Brakes\parking brake
The e-brake adjustment is that bracket located where the cable from the brake handle meets the the cables under the rear of the car. To adjust it you need a crescent wrench to hold the small flat spot on the left brake cable and an open end wrench to turn the nut on the left side of the bracket. Since it appears that this adjustment has not been done in a while you may need to use a good lubricant in order to make the nut turn. Keep turning the nut until you can engage the e-brake with about 7 clicks of the brake handle.
If you look under the car in the back, the adjuster (equilizer) will be tucked up in the engine cradle near the catylitic converter. If you're still unsure, simply remove the left rear wheel and follow the brake cable. Hope this helps.
I just tightened my 88 GT along with my 86 SE.(April is sticker month) It isn't all that hard. I do it with out removing the wheels but you can if you want more room/visibility Here's what I do:
1. Block front tires and release e-brake
2. Raise the rear end
3. Pull e-cable out of it's locking position thereby releasing the spring
4. Remove the lever which retained the cable and spring
5. With a wrench, set the parking brake by hand till the brake is fully engaged
6. Loosen slightly to disengage the brake
7. Replace e-brake lever onto the 5 point nut doing your best to rotate the nut only in the engaging direction; this will allow the e-cable minimum travel and maximum operation ( when you replace the lever position it approximately in the 1/2 to 3/4 area of movement)
8. Make the same adjustment on the opposite side
9. Test the system to be sure your brake is disengaging when you release the handle but at the same time maintaining maximum stopping force by a short pull on the handle
10. You may have to repeat these steps or adjust the brake cable to achieve optimum e-brake pressure
Hope this helps - my e-brake would rather kill the engine than allow the car to move (even better in reverse)
Chris J Vasek

I have a complete set of all the Fiero Campaign Bulletins that I put together a few years ago. I talked to my inside source at PMD about a month ago and was assured that I had them all. (The source doesn't work that area any more, so I will double check next week and post to the list)
84-C-08 Mispositioned clamp on heater hose
84-C-15 Engine compartment fires
84-C-15A Same as above supersedes 84-C-15
84-C-15A (supplement) rules for scrapping bad engines
84-C-15B Suopersedes 84-C-15A
86-C-01 86 V-^ instrument panel short
86-C-08 V-6 GT's w/Muncie 5-speed, sticks in first
86-C-08A Do not use interlock plate in 86-C-08
86-C-11 A/C hose on 86 2.5L
86-C-11A Supersedes 86-C-11
86-C-13 Splash shield interference with coolant hose on 85-86 V-6
86-C-16 Park brake adjuster on 84-6 manual shift
87-C-11 Maintenance re-emphasis on 85-7 2.5L
88-C-23 Lack of adequate service or maintenance on 84-88 cars w/2.5L (supplements 84-C-15B, supersedes 87-C-11
88-C-24 Lack of adequate service or maintenance on 85-88 cars w/V-6
Notice there is no 88-C-23A
dave kauzlarich



The back end is the same as most from that GM era. The front is different. I recently took an alternator from an 87 4 cylinder Fiero, took off the pulley and front housing and used the one from a defunct 88 alternator in it's place. Works just fine and saved $100. Go looking again, but this time think about swaping the front from yours to another one.
Randy Agee
Oliver, Here is the information you are looking for and then some.
The GM part # you gave me 10463397 is the correct replacement GM # which crosses to a Delco 321-1015.
The reason the dealer couldn't help you is I had to get the OE number and get the part #'s that way. I got you all the part numbers for all the replacement parts available.
I am not familiar with were you live, but if you have an auto parts store that sells A/C Delco it would be cheeper to go that way. OK here is your information.
The original part # for the Alternator on your car is GM # 1105604.
The Rotor Assembly GM # 10475405 A/C Delco # D3189
Voltage Regulator GM # 1116423 A/C Delco # D680
Brush Package GM # 1984462 A/C Delco # D766
Diode Trio GM # 1984459 A/C Delco # D3922
Rectifier Bridge GM # 1987061 A/C Delco # D3986
Rear Bearing GM # 9441879 A/C Delco # MJN711
Front Bearing GM # 908419 A/C Delco # Z99503-6

AUTOMATIC-- What is the easiest or the best way to remove the Alternator from the engine?
Assuming that you've got an automatic, you're in for some fun. The alternator cooling tube needs to be removed, dog bone and dog bone mount need to be removed, and athe lternator heat shield must be removed while alternator is still in the car. Once the alternator is disconnected from it's pivot bolt and ajusting bracket, the adjusting bracket must also be removed. Unless you have a manual transmission, the alternator has to be removed from the top. The only way it comes out the top, is by removing all the forementioned obstructions. It's still a little tricky, but it does come out. I'm sure i've forgotten a couple things, but I'm sure other list members will remember. Set aside a big piece of scrap wood to beat into splinters for this job. It will save you from taking your frustration out on the car. Trust me. :)
Guy McMickle Cincinnati, Ohio
Not to start a heated argument, but I removed and replaced an alternator on my 85GT w. Auto recently and I was able to get the alternator out the bottom without removing the tie rod. The alternator, wires/harness, heat shroud and alternator holding bracket needed to be removed but that was it. The alternator was then removed by pulling it out through the bottom near the front part of the wheel well. Some juggling needed to be done and things are tight but it did come out. Just thought that I'd relay my experience.
Dennis LaGrua
As I recall, Any V6 manual shift is simple. The alternator drops out the bottom after removing the wires, adjustment bolt, and top retainer bolt. Since the 88 suspension components are different, I have replaced a alternator in a 88 V6 automatic the same way, dropped out the bottom.
Now, the 85-87 V6 auto's. I remove the cool air tube from the rear firewall that opens to the alternator, removed the front dogbone bolt (swing the dogbone up & back), removed the wires, & 2 bolts, then removed the alternator bracket bolts that attaches it to the engine block. With the bracket loose (not removed), the alternator can be removed out the top.
I don't want to step on anybody's toes here but I really would like to suggest the easiest way to get that alternator out without all the hassle everybody seems to think is involved. I bought my first Fiero in April, 1990 (86 V6 Auto).
I replaced the alternator once and told myself Pontiac may have made it difficult to get to certain engine parts but surely they don't want me to strip a 1/4 of my car down to simply replace the alternator?!!
I was certain there was an easier way. I began ordering literature on the assembly process of the car. Sure enough the answer was discovered. Since the first time I did tried it this way, I have since used this avenue to change all sorts of parts and also clean the engine and Trans REALLY good; not to mention the ease of changing my exhaust manifolds and tips.
Here is how (V6):

1. Chock the front wheels.
2. Take one bolt (15mm bolt, 15mm nut) completely out of the dogbone.
3. Take the rubber intake hose off at one side(5/16 nut driver on filter side).
4. If the two vacuum hoses from the engine to the trunk wall look short then remove one side of them also.
5. Raise the rear end by jacking up on the rear of the engine cradle as high as your floor jack will lift it.
6. See that the wheel chocks are still firmly against the front tires.
7. Place jack stands at the lifting pads located on the rear of the chassis forward of the front engine cradle mounts.
8. Take out the two rear cradle bolts (3/4")(use a 1/2" drive, long extension, and shallow socket).
9. Slowly lower the floor jack until the struts are fully extended then raise the cradle an inch or so to relieve the weight of the drivetrain from the struts.
10. Use a third jack stand to support the engine cradle.
11. Do whatever your heart desires from above or below the engine compartment;
this way will give new meaning to fixing Fieros to those who never tried it.
Good luck and don't hurt yourself or your Fiero. (BE CAREFUL)
Chris J. Vasek

FIERO\Electrical\Cruise & Stalk
Turn signal stalk with delay and cruise This is probably one of the most common parts that break. It is the #1 cause for non-working cruise systems. Although this part is discontinued, GM makes a compatible cruise stalk with part number 2511 1290. It is flat black instead of shiny, but otherwise a direct replacement.
It's too late now but you should check the Fiero Store on these expensive dealer parts. I bought a genuine GM stalk from them w/cruise and delay for $80.00.
When my cruise control didn't work, I found out it that the botton on the clutch pedal was out of adjustment. There is also one on the brake pedal. After I adjusted these my cruise worked fine!! Hope this helps!!
I was doing a plug change on my 88 and noticed that one of the Vacume lines was dry rotted. Replaced it and the Cruice Control works Great! :
From my experience and reading, 9 times out of 10, a non functioning cruise control is caused by one of two things:

1) The button in the turn signal stalk no longer works. Easy way to check is to plug a known good one into where the old one plugs up, then go for a drive. If your cruise works, you know you need to replace the old stalk.
2) The clutch pedal "switch" is out of adjustment. There is a little white pedal switch mounted above the clutch pedal under the dash. Adjust it by pushing the clutch pedal all the way down, then push the switch as far towards the pedal as it can go. You should hear little "clicks" as it moves. Then, pull the pedal as far towards you as possible. It should now be adjusted. You might have to fiddle around with it a little though. Just make sure that the little "plunger" is all the way in. Once you get in there and see what I'm talking about, this will all make a lot more sense.
Good luck. Guy McMickle
If it is a stick you may want to look under the dash on the driver's side and look at the clutch pedal. There is a tiny little switch that the clutch touches when it is out. When you press the clutch pedal down the switch deactivates the cruise. When I got my car the person I bought it from told me the cruise didn't work and he didn't know why. This switch screws on to adjust properly. You may just need to unscrew it a little so that it will make contact with the clutch pedal. That was all that was wrong with mine. If you have an auto look at the brake pedal for the same thing. Don't really know that much about the automatics though.
Blinker Stalk---new one ---wires
You don't have to remove the steering wheel, find and unplug the connector from under the dash, you will note that there is a little hole in the connector on the control's there so you can insert some mechanics wire (or similar strong wire) and bend the end over and give it a twist. Pull the stock out and pull the wire up through the steering column and out through the top, the last bit may be a bit tough because of a 90 degree bend but it does come out (might have to twist it a bit (the wire)). Remove the mechaincs wire from the old connector (which should be at this point out the top of the column) and put the new connector on and then pull the mechanics wire back down (from the bottom) and pull the wire though.
If you were simply replacing the lever, you could have attached a piece of mechanic's wire to the tiny hole in the end of the cruise wire, which would snake it's way up the column when you removed the old lever. Then you would simply remove the old cruise wire, attach the new ond pull the mechanic's wire back through the column and out with wire attached - all without removing the column from the car.
The first thing you need to look at/inspect is the turn signal stalk itself. 95% of cruise control problems can be attributed to broken wires in the stalk. What you need to do is remove the stalk from the column and inspect the wires around where they attach to the stalk....they usually break right at that junction or within a few inches of the stalk (rubbed through). To remove the stalk just grip it tight and pull straight may take some force, but it will come out.

If the wires check out OK, then I'd look at the "coffee can" canister for rust holes or the little white plastic switch attached to the pedals. Sometimes they get out of adjustment or break causing the cruise not to work.

I'm not saying it never happens, but rarely does anything major go wrong with the "guts" of the cruise system, i.e. the pump thing or electrical stuff (other than the stalk wires).
Mike Valentine Brighton, CO

FIERO\Electrical\Fuel Pump
I have a 86.5 GT that has just developed a problem with the fuel pump running all the time...........

Pull the connector from the oil pressure sender. If the fuel pump stops the oil pressure sender is defective and you'll need to replace it. If this test does not turn off the fuel pump, replace the fuel pump relay which is located on the firewall behind the air filter. You'll need to remove the air filter to get at the relay.. Of the two relays located there, the fuel pump relay is the one on the extream right. The part number for the fuel pump relay is Filko RL37 and they are commonly available at most auto stores. You may wish to note that the fuel pump and A/C relays are identical Problem fixed.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Dennis LaGrua
Drained my gas tank tonite. 2 year old gas had to go before I start it up. I remember reading that you can run the fuel pump by jumping the correct ALDL pins. I looked in my Helm and found that if you put power to one pin it runs the fuel pump. It is the only pin on the top row that has a wire to it. Tan/white. Pin G. I ran a jumper from the lighter hot wire to that pin and the pump ran. I had disconected the line to the fuel filter. Took just a few minutes to empty the tank. About 8-9 gallons.
Rodney Dickman 1988 Mera will run after 2 years of sitting!!!
Fuel pressure under any load should be 40.5 psi to 47 psi, and pressure at idle should be 3-10 psi less.
If fuel pressure is too low, pinch off the return fuel line. If the fuel pressure goes up, your problem is the regulator. If it doesn't change, the problem is the fuel pump.
Gas tank is full. Fuse for fuel pump is good. Fuel pump???? or am I missing something???
I think you're missing something. Looking at the motor, on the right side of the red intake plenum, where the fuel lines meet the fuel block, there is a schrader valve. Remove the cap and press the valve with a screwdriver. Make sure to put a rag around the valve to keep the gas off of the engine's paint, and the engine itself if the engine is hot. Also, don't let it squirt in your eyes. :) If you get a "fuel gusher" about 6 inches high (or better), then fuel is getting to the injector rail. Look towards spark. My Formulas have eaten the pickup coil more times that I can count! Measure the coil (in the distributor) with a digital ohm meter for an open, or short to ground. Either is bad. (Measure the open across both wires. If the gauge doesn't move, the coil is open. (Or you're on the wrong meter setting ... ) Measure one wire at a time, with the other meter lead to the distributor housing to check for shorts) I forget what the exact Ohm reading should be, so I cannot tell you the "exact" reading.
Eric '88 Yellow Formula '86 Pro-street GT
Hey Dennis, I'll bet your starting problem is your fuel pump relay, right behind your air filter bolted to the firewall. Your car will run even if the thing fails, because the backup system for the fuel pump is wired through your oil pressure switch.

You'll have to spin your motor over and over until the oil pressure switch says 'OK'. Then you'll get fuel. And when you shut your engine off, usually there's enough pressure in the system, to get it going again when you re-crank. But if it doesn't fire immediately, you have to wait for the oil pressure switch.

These relays do fail! On one of mine, I would turn my key to 'on' and even hear the relay click, but the contacts were worn out, and it never fired off the pump. When you turn your key to the 'on' position, the pump should run for about 2 sec. to prime the motor.

Try this. If your car has a/c, there will be two relays behind the air filter. Switch relays. You won't even need to unbolt them. It's a super easy test, (unless your a/c relay is bad, too!).
Joel 19

MSD GM Dual Connector Coil P/N 8226 $38

MSD easy connect GM dual connector coil harness P/N 8876 $24 (this harness will simplify installation & allow a change back to stock a minute plug in job)

MSD 6A Capacitive Discharge Multi-spark ignition box $129.95

MSD Superconductor 8.5 MM Spiral Copper ignition wire set P/N 31189 $65

MSD Copper spiral wire has a resistance of only 50 ohms per foot. In comparison, regular nickel spiral wire like Accel, has a resistance of 250 ohms per foot. Still good but not optimum like the MSD superconductor wires. The wire set comes with the proper distributor terminal ends and boots for the Fiero distributor and since it is an 8 cyl. set enough wire is provided for a cutting mistake or two.(Note that this is a universal cut to fit wire set but the end result is a set of wires that fit better than any finished set.) It took me about 1 1/2 hours to cut and install the set.

For plugs I use AC CR42TS (" C " is for copper electrode) R42TS also work OK. Gap is .045". With this $260 ignition system I get a super hot ignition output. My turbo engine with10 lbs boost works perfectly. I have not experienced any miss or shortfall in ignition performance so far...and... I do stand on it Dennis LaGrua Neshanic, NJ

TRI-STATE FIERO CLUB Custom FIERO Turbocharging website at:
- - Beautiful 10 pc. Fiero Wood Dash kits for $89.95

-------------- AC-Delco P/N 16139389 (D1992) ignition modules

-------------- AcceL 8.8 wires Part # 8879
Jay, if it won't start with a "jolt" of starting fluid (not good to use),then it probably has no spark.

When it stops the next time, immeadiately pull the coil wire off the coil, spin the engine and check for spark running down the tower.

If none, most likely cause is module. But, the coil, pick-up coil, pigtail between, and ECM are all heat sensitive.

Ed Parks The Fiero Factory
The Fiero engine compartment is much hotter than on other GM cars. This is a prime reason why only genuine AC-Delco Ignition Modules will last long term on a Fiero. Excessive heat can also kill a coil. While I have used other than GM coils with success they have been of the high performance variety like MSD, Crane and Accel. I would try replacing the coil with one of the high performance ignition coils and see if that makes a difference. Also be sure to check that the heat shield is in place on the left side of the coil and that the engine compartment cooling fan is working. Switch your A/C on and see if air comes out of the tubes near the alternator and the coil. Also, are your wires in good condition?? Wires, especially the carbon core type that GM used on the Fiero do deteriorate. High wire resistance will stress the coil as it has to work much harder to throw a spark. Look at your engine compartment in complete darkness. ( I do this check regularly) Do you see any sparks? If so your wires are the problem and need replacement. I would recommend 8.5 or 8.8mm spiral core suppression type ignition wire. Hope these suggestions help. -- Dennis LaGrua Neshanic, NJ

One of my Pontiac Emblem lights burned out... or so I thought, until I pulled it out. The socket was melted. In fact, all four sockets were deformed. There are 921s in my car that must have been put there by the previous owner. I'd be careful about replacing the standard lamps with a higher wattage.

Just replace your two small bulbs for larger ones. The new bulbs are part number 912. pontiac sign. see OSGfiero_osg

I used #906 lamps in place of the originals. They are larger but fit the sockets. I have had them in place for about a year and they have not damaged the sockets
As a matter of fact, let me pull out my 'GE Lighting Miniature & Sealed Beam Lamp Catalog'...
The 921 is a T5 wedge base lamp. The 'T5' signifies a tubing diameter of 5/8" (5 X 1/8"). It runs on 12.8 volts and consumes 1.40 amps (WOW!). It delivers approximately 21 mean spherical candlepower (don't worry about this, just remember the higher the number, the brighter the lamp output) and is rated for 500 hours of operation. So, the total wattage for four lamps is over 70W, which is more than a high beam filament! Now I'm starting to worry about my ignition switch.

The standard 194 lamp is a T3-1/4 (about .40" dia.), consumes .27A @ 14V, delivers 2 mean spherical candlepower (MSC) and should last 2500 hours. The 168 is also a T3-1/4 lamp, consumes .35A @ 14V, delivers 3 MSC and has a life rating of 1500 hours.

To make the emblem brighter, you need to match the wedge base, operating volts, and increase the MSC. Here are some other T5 suggestions:

Lamp Volts Amps MSC Life (hours)

904 13.5 0.69 4 5000
906 13. 0.69 6 1000
912 12.8 1.00 12 1000
916 13.5 0.54 2 10000 (not brighter, but will last forever)
917 12.8 1.20 10 1200
918 12.8 0.56 6.5 500
923 12.8 0.91 12.5 500 (a good compromise?)

There are others, but the life or MSC is less than the standard lamp. The 912, 917 and 923 might be good choices because they increase the light output considerably, and don't run as hot as the 921. With this information, you can make a choice that best fits your needs.

I bought a starter from autozone for my 84 Fiero 4cyl. and it has two connections for the smaller wires on the selinoid(sp) where the old one only had one connection but two wires going to it .
Can I cut the wires apart from each other and hook them to the individual connectors and if so what wire is what ??
The extra terminal on your solenoid is known as an "R" or relay terminal. This terminal has a contact connected to it that will be at 12 volts when the solenoid contacts are closed in the solenoid and the starter is cranking. It is a feature used by older vehicles that had a resistor in the primary lead of the ignition coil.
The "R" terminal was used to jumper around the resistor to provide a hotter spark during crank. This is not used in a Fiero since it has a more modern solid state ignition module.
The "R" terminal will check as an open circuit with a continuity light when the starter is not "energized". The "S" terminal is the one you hook up. It will show continuity to ground when using a continuity checker or an ohmmeter.
If you drive your Fiero in winter weather that includes snow and freezing water, the solenoid cap on the replacement motor you purchased should be sealed.
Dick Larimore Black '85GT Muncie, Indiana
If you have a bad cable problem, as some here have suggested, the easiest way to check it is with a voltmeter. Put one lead on a good ground, usually the battery negitive post, and then check the voltage of both the positive post and the starter terminal when the while someone is trying to start the car when it is in the "won't start" mode.
There shouldn't be but about 1/2 volt difference between the two readings. The higher the reading, the worse the cable is.
A second method to do the same thing is to put one lead on the battery positive post and the other lead on the starter terminal while the same person is trying to start the car. Your reading will then be the difference in voltage between the two locations. No math involved.
One thing you may consider is trying to retain the original starter. I have not used a rebuilt starter in many many years. I will take the one out that is giving trouble and rebuild it myself.
Usually all you need is new brushes and a solenoid. Most of the time I am able to even cleanup the old solenoid and reuse it. Not hard. Brushes are maybe $4.00.
To do new brushes and the solenoid does not require any special tools. Just sand the armature. Next time you have a starter problem get the brushes and a new (good quality) solenoid and try rebuilding it.
Does not take too long. Easy. Cheap. Napa sells the brushes.
Rodney Dickman

Engine Swaps----Foreman Racing
Lot's of links for different engine swaps

V6 firing order-- Couldn't be easier. 1 2 3 4 5 6
6 4 2
5 3 1
Facing the car from the rear 1 is the far right cylinder closest to the tail lights. To its left in the middle is 3, on the left is 5.
The right front of the engine (closest to the headlights) is 2, in the middle is 4, on the left is 6.
------------------- mfg number--
4 Cylinder -
stamped opposite the number 3 cylinder, on the right side of the case, on the left side of the pad, as close to the rear as possible
6 Cylinder -
stamped on crankcase, on right hand side of engine, to rear of distributor
-------------- 4cyl---timing gear -------
Timing Gear
No harm will come to the engine when it does strip, you will just come to a stop. Since it is an onerous and expensive job, do not suggest that it be considered routine maintenence.
Melling part # 2524 is an alloy replacement gear, when the time comes.
Ed Parks The Fiero Factory
if you remove the front cradle bolts then you must remove the rears also. don't take that approach. this was not the most enjoyable task I had to perform on the 86 but I got it done with excellent results. below is basically the best approach I found by the time I finally got everything visible and within reach.
I lower the cradle from the rear by removing ONE side of the air intake tube, Dog Bone, and the two vacuum hoses attached to the trunk wall next to the PCV. remove the decklid also. you must already have the car supported by jack stands forward of the engine cradle and a floor jack(or similar device) under the rear of the cradle prior to removing the rear cradle bolts.
I welded mine on the 86 SE as much as I could get to before detaching it from the head to ensure the bolt holes matched when finished (high heat flexing) you also may have to remove, or atleast loosen, the A/C bracket in order to fully extract one or more exhaust bolts.
Chris 86 SE 88 GT 97 Sierra
valve cover gaskets v6 rubber only!!
The 4 cylinder valve cover gasket from GM is the best one to use. It has a piece of metal sandwiched in the gasket, and has an adhesive on one side.
If there is a black plastic filler piece, remove it and you will find a 15mm nut that you'll need to put a wrench on. That will get the nut off, and the bolt - while turning it - will slide out.
A trick to install the dog bone back in is to remove the bolt that holds the multi-piece bracket together on the engine side. It runs from from to back, pointing towards the car. (The bracket is actually where the end of the dogbone bolts to)
Take that bolt out and you will have about an extra inch or two, which is plenty and sure beats pulling on the engine and trying to force the bolt back in.
Then once you get things loosely put together, start tightening everything evenly and it will go back together smoothly.
Eric '88 Yellow Formula '86 Pro-street GT BoomTastic.Com
-- Take off the black plastic triangle cover, to the right of the dogbone, on the strut tower. With this off, you can access the nut.
Did a bit more research on the head bolts for the 60* V6 and it has confirmed what I had suspected.
The 60* V6 engine ( 2.8L, 3. 1L and 3.4L )uses what they call, "stretch" head bolts, meaning that after you torque them to specifications they elongate a bit.
These headbolts were designed by GM for one time only use and should not be re-used.
While you may get away with using them over again, the head bolts strength decreases the second time that they are torqued. If you add some engine mods and up your power, the chances of engine failure will increase dramatically when reusing the head bolts.
The $36 price for a new set of Fel-Pro headbolts appears like a good investment for an optimum rebuild job. In my opinion it's rather cheap insurance to pay for holding the engine together.
Dennis LaGrua Neshanic, NJ

I think Fedral Mogul makes replacement pistons for GM there are three different pistons so compression can be slightly altered. the 3.4 twin cam pistons
3.4 aluminum head pistons
3.4 camaro pistons.
also consideri having the block decked as well as the heads for increased compression.
Crower makes some nice 60 degree cams and crane makes the lifters you would probably want to use.
......talked to Joe Wyman (spl?) and he suggested a few items:
Ford motorsport injectors (302V8)
VS 1008 springs (have 85# spring rate)
TP 207 cam by TRW (same as crane cam but 1/2 price)
HI PO chip he makes just for the 3.4
Joe's # is (201) 457-9507
The 3.4 is a direct bolt in, except: you have to weld a nut onto the back side of the mount (located behind the passenger seat) because the mount has three holes, but the 3.4 block has only two. A nut on the back side allows you to bolt up everything. I can't recall if it was a motor mount or air-conditioner mount, but it's in that area. Then there's the fear inspiring starter bolt holes. If possible/practical I'd send the motor to Ed Parks . He's done quite a few. Lacking that, get a good machine shop to take the measurements off the 2.8 and drill and tap new holes. I made my own template and had a small shop do the rest, worked fine. As Ed says, be very careful here. I bought a complete engine, so I just had to switch the oil pan, front cover, injectors, intake and exaust manifolds.
Other than the $50. for drilling, I only had to spend money on a intake manifold gasket set.
Surf the net to find low mile 3.4 motors. Expect to pay $600 to 900.
Try: 800-283-3667 Stan 800-451-9555 888-397-6034 or 6039?
800-582-5405 Bob
Dave, a bare block can be handled by any competant machine shop. We designed our drill guide plate to use with an assembled engine. Avoiding having to tear down and rebuild. If you are going to rebuild with higher compression pistons, more aggressive cam, etc, then you can start with a FWD alloy head engine and the starter will already be on the correct side. It is the pistons, heads, and cam of the FWD that are not compatable with using all the Fiero parts.
Answers as best as we can to::
1. We have no access to bare blocks. In addition to starter holes, the block needs to be cut for auto trans clearance (about like the other side), the lower rear bellhousing bolt hole needs to have threads removed, and the starter bolts need the shoulder ground down unless the new starter holes are chamfered at a machine shop. Refer to above for possible FWD engine usage.
2. On 87's the engine shock mount needs a bolt welded from the back to make a stud for the a/c bracket (this is also used on an 88 with an 87 a/c bracket), as there is no boss on the block. A 1/4 pipe to 5/16 adapter is necessary for the oil pressure sensor pipe. The alloy pan of the FWD and the steel pan of the RWD 3.4's are compatible with the 87-88 timing gear cover, but will need the engine mount bracket ground for clearance. If using the Fiero oil pan, that is not necessary. For an 88 cradle, 2" need to be added to the "foot" of an earlier mount bracket, unless the Fiero pan is used. The 3.4 timing mark comes up on the opposite side and the harmonic balancer needs to be indexed to match the 2. 8 one.
3. Camaro flywheel is NOT usable. About 1" thicker. Instead use a 3.4 TDC. Exact dimensions of an 88 Fiero, about 3-4 lbs heavier. but also about $150 lighter then an 88 Fiero one.
4. You can use the Camaro or FWD 3.4 in total, not partial. Same as any other engine swap, computer, wiring integration, exhaust fabrication, cables, cooling system changes, and air induction. Would be easier to bolt in, but all above changes have to be made. Nothing is changed when using all Fiero parts.
5. Barely know how to turn a computer on, much less how to find web sites!! Expect GM to have best array of performance parts for the 60 degree engines.
6. Pay attention, time, money, or a combination, to the exhaust side.
Money, to the ignition.
7. Have had more initial failures from "high performance" clutches then from stock NEW ones.
You can reasonably expect 185-195 hp from this 207 ci engine, with rock solid reliability.
Sorta puts extra "Excitement" into these little Pontiacs!!
Posting to the lists, as this may answer others questions also.
Let me know if we can help, and thanks for asking.
Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory
Robert, there is quite a difference in the alloy head 3.4's. Not the block, but the insides.
The cam (has roller lifters that cannot be used with iron heads without custom made pushrods), and the pistons (deeper dish), will have to be changed.
Just changing the cam, lifters, and pushrods (also must use 2.8 timing gear set), and bolting on iron heads will result in a compression ratio of about 7-71/2 to one (estimated).
Been there, done that!!, before we had a starter drill guide plate made.
At the time there were no aftermarket pistons available. GM's were $70 each!! Now, Silvolite has them available @ $20 each. You could also use the TDC piston. Probably gain 1/2 point over stock 3.4's.
Hope this helps.
"Yell, Robert" writes: Yep,,learned that real quick. Thanks to the list.
But I do have another question. Is the BLOCK totally the same on the FWD aluminum head versions?
As I've found a few FWD 3.4 motors.
But only 1 3.4 Firebird motor. And I've found that locally the FWD is cheaper than the RWD version.
I've built/rebuilt many motors, so swapping the heads over will be no problem. I've already got two 2. 8's in my garage now. One is from a 1988 firebird (cast iron head). The other is from a 1988 Barrette (aluminum head).
If I get the FWD version of the 3.4 block I shouldn't have to get the starter swapped. Is this correct. Then I should be able to install cast iron heads from one of my other motors. Yes?
If you know this to be correct I can get my 3.4 this weekend! I've put out a "search" at the local yards for a high mileage 3.4 from a camaro/firebird. One yard has a 3.4 "in stock" with 43k miles for $650 from a 1995 Chevy lumina mini van. I think in 1995 they are roller cams.
Again I thank you guys very much, as I currently don't have the time to do the needed "home work" for the swap. I'm trying to gather all the parts I need for a winter project. I still need to get heat in my garage. Maybe next month.
Any "correct info" is very appreciated!!!!
Robert Yell CLARiiON Storage Systems Senior Attach Eng. Coslin Drive Attach Group Southboro, MA 01772
----Original Message----- From: [] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 9:26 PM To: Yell, Robert Subject: Re: (Fiero) 3.4 liter gm v6 from 1995 camaro/firebird
Robert, as you now know, the starter bolt holes are on the wrong side of the 3.4 block.
All three 3.4's (alloy head, TDC, GM Performace and cast head Camaro/Firebird) can run the Fiero Dist. They just have a removable plug.
Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory 8710B Hwy 53, Toney, Ala 35773 Shop: 256-420-5391...

Is a 3.4 motor a different block and can I use the same intake?
the 3.4 with headers and a computer compatable cam, should be near or at 200 hp, rock solid, and will look EXACTLY like a 2.8. And even better, it will diagnoise the same if/when it has any sensor problems in the future.
Though nearly the same blocks, the 3.4 requires modifying to install the starter on the correct side. We had a drill guide plate manufactured for accuracy. There are a few other very minor differences, but any parts needed in the future WOULD be bought as though everything is Fiero. Makes maintenence far simpler.
Ed Parks
Stan, we had a drill guide plate manufactured that allows drilling and tapping starter mounting holes on an assembled 3.4 longblock. After that it is simple to redress it with all the Fiero V6 parts so that it looks EXACTLY like the original engine. There are a few easy bracket modifications to do or that we furnish.
The 3.4 needed is used in 93-95 Camaro's and Firebird's. It is also available new from GM Performance as a replacement for S-10 and Blazer.
Don't use minivan 3.4 with Fiero heads and accessories. Winds up with about 7-1 compression ratio. Should be good with a turbo, though.
Larger flow rate injectors have to be used and don't come with the "crate" engine. Would have to be purchased seperately. They will come with engines pulled from wrecked cars.
The 3.4 is an internally balanced engine like the 88 Fiero 2.8. Unless yours is an 88, then there will be the extra expense of a Fiero flywheel/flexplate, since the Camaro one cannot be used in the Fiero.
At this time we are charging $1050,(feb,99) to prep a 3.4, pull your engine, transfer all the parts, and install the 3.4 back in your car. Current prices for used 3.4' s are between $900 and $1200, exchange. Oil, filter, and antifreeze are extra.
Most folks want a new water pump installed, plugs, wires, belts, maybe a clutch at this time. Since the cost of transfering all the old parts is included, there is no further labor charge if they are new parts, just the cost of any new parts you might want/need.
Can't give an exact price, since it would depend on you, and the purchase cost of the 3.4, but this should give you a good idea. Don't forget about the 88 flywheel, they are about $250, the auto flexplate is under $100, if you are not an 88.
Cost is higher if begining with a 4 cyl, and even more if starting with an 84.
Ed Parks
scott wrote:
What is the difference between the van 3.4 and the Camaro 3.4?
I was considering the 3.4 also and had heard that it is more of an economy motor than a power producer anyone know the factory HP on one.I had read 155hp somewhere but this seems low.
Scott Dover,OH
The van motor is an aluminum head engine with the starter on the correct side for the Fiero.
Nancy and I have a '97 Pontiac Montana Transport with the 3.4 L aluminum head engine. It is rated at 180 BHP. The Montana also has a 4 speed automatic transaxle.
In the heavier Montana, the aluminum head 3.4L will literally make the Mini Van haul ass. In fact, it accelerates faster than Nancy's '87 GT with a stock 2. 8 and three speed TH-125.
I have spent hours studying this engine and transaxle as it is in the Montana. IMHO, if one were to take the COMPLETE package, including computer, fuel injection, exhaust manifolds, etc. and move it to a Fiero it would make a *v*e*r*y* interesting package. All the right stuff appears to be in the right places and facing the right direction.
Will it work? That I do not know since I have not talked to anyone who has made the swap or even had the Transport cradle/engine/transaxle out to really measure and compare. But, I see it an interesting option.
On the Camaro 3.4L with the iron heads most guys are using the original Fiero top, including the distributor, fuel injection and TB. this gives a few more cc and grunt with the appearance of a stock Fiero without complex tranny and computer/wiring changes. IMHO (again) it gives the most bang for the buck when doing an engine upgrade on a high mileage/tired 2.8 - even with the added cost of moving the starter mount position.
Randy Agee
On the flywheel: I too had to purchase a flywheel for an '88 GT, since I was replacing the engine in my '85. It was about $60 - $70 from our guy at Chriswell Chevrolet (used to be Columbia Pontiac) - brand new, OEM part.
IMHO, this was NOT an expensive part in the grand scheme of things.
- Ryan Wright ( (Tri-Cities, Washington)
Either I have been being "ripped off" by local Pontiac dealer for over $200 88 2.8 flywheel (Jeez, could that be possible??), or you may have gotten the wrong flywheel. I never thought to check with Chris for a price even though I must send at least 1/2 dozen customers to them per week. Will check tomorrow. Do you still have the part # you recieved?
BTW, the Chev 3.4 TDC flywheel is identical to 88 2.8 (and neutrally balanced) except weight. About 4 lbs heavier, and is under $100. Maybe that is a new "crossover" #. Why do you get more, for less
Ed Parks
the alloy head engines will NOT accept Fiero manifolds. Either 3.1 or 3.4.
If iron heads are used on a previously alloy engine, you will lose compression if pistons are not changed. If you wish to keep the roller lifters, you will have to figure and have made, custom length pushrods.
If you wish to use the entire engine, it will be an easier conversion then a 3800.
Stock Fiero engine mounts (except 88) can be used, and stock flywheel/flexplate from Fiero or 3.4 TDC can be used.
You then ONLY have to integrate the wiring, fabricate the exhaust, and plumb the cooling system.
Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory
Hello, Has anyone performed a complete or know where I can obtain information of a 3. 4 short block swap on my 2.8L?
Someone mentions a 3.4L engine from a Camaro would work but from what year?
Any year with a 3.4 (96?)
Is it iron head or aluminum or does it matter?
iron head, the pistons in the alum head block only have around 7:1 compression when used w/ the Fiero heads/ intake/ exhaust.
Information I am looking for are: Does the Computer have to be change?
What year and model of the 3.4L will directly drop in?
none, all must have starter holes drilled on "right" side, & a few other items depending on the yr. Fiero i.e.: motor mount interferes with some compressors, oil pan, oil pickup, timing chain cover must be a "matched set", etc... see for more details.
Sensors and gauges, can I use the stock?
Manifolds, do original fit?
Procedures? Has anyone written a procedure on this swap?
see the above page +
Basically, what is involve?
I am trying to decide whether to go turbo on my stock engine or drop in a modified a 3.4L.
IF you go the modified route and use different pistons, you can use a 96 / 97 lumina APV block giving you starter holes in the right place & a roller cam which you can get reground to just about any specs you want, but requires custom pushrods.
Alfred Clark Montgomery, AL ShortBlock


A 3800 swap by David
David - Fieroman
?????get the 3.8 Supercharged 94+ engine, it makes 240-250 hp stock and is much more reliable than the totally unreliable turbo GN engine??????
3. 8 a torque monster, but also a 90degree V6 so it requires an adaptor kit.
Since this engine is only available with an automatic trans, adapting it for a manual transmission requires special parts.
As far as I know you only need to use a Camero 3.8 manual flywheel and have it turned down to the Fiero thickness. The manual transmissions then are a direct bolt up.
Rodney Dickman

Remove the cover on the center console where the cigarette lighter is mounted. On the passenger side of the opening there is an oblong connector. This is the ALDL connector.
The ALDL has 12 locations (most are empty) for terminals arranged as shown.
..../ | M | | | | | G | \
/ ------------------------- \
| | A | B | C | D | E | F | |
Note: The corners by M and G are rounded.
There is a tab between C and D.
Turn the key to the run position but do not start the car.
Use a paperclip or other metal object to short A and B together.
Watch the Check Engine light and count the flashes to get the error codes.
Each error code will consist of two groups of flashes with a short pause between the two groups and a long pause after the two digit error code.
Each error code is repeated three times.
Error Code 12 is always sent first and last of all the error codes.
Error Code 12 does not indicate a problem.
After you have read all the codes, look them up in a service manual or other list.
The factory service manual has a couple pages describing exactly what can set each code, showing the circuits involved, and listing diagnostics to narrow down the problem better.
If your list has one or two lines that end with "replace XXXXXX", the part may not need replacing. There are many things that can cause some of these codes to be set.
If you don't have a service manual, (GET ONE!) you may want to post the codes and the symptoms (along with the year, engine type, and transaxle type of the car) to the list.
According to my 1985 Celebrity shop manual with 2.8 MFI...
The TPS provides voltage signal that changes with throttle valve movement, varying from 0.5v at idle to 4.5v at wide open throttle(WOT). A code 21 will set if:
Engine is running TPS signal voltage is greater than 2.5v for 3 seconds Engine is less than 1200 RPM Air flow less than 12gm/sec or TPS voltage over 4.5v with ignition on or engine running.
To determine if wiring /ECM is ok or confirm code 21 TPS Signal Voltage High do this:
Clear all diag codes, start engine, let idle in drive, a/c off for 1 min until check engine light comes on. (You want that RPM below 1200.) Confirm that code 21 is set. (Skip this if you know for sure its a 21 and nothing else.)
Ignition off, clear codes, disconnect TPS sensor, start engine, idle until check engine light comes on, check code again.
If code 22 signal voltage low...probe TPS harness connector ground for 12v. If 12v, faulty TPS connection or sensor. If no 12v. open TPS circuit.
If code 21...ignition off, disconnect ecm, ignition on, probe harness B circuit (gnd is A) maybe dark blue wire with voltmeter to ground. If less than 1 volt, replace ECM (rarely), over 1v, repair short on that circuit.
With throttle closed, ignition on, the TPS voltage between terminals A and B should be .55v +/- .05v.
Hope this helps...
Chuck Myers WFO DMX

FIERO\Engine\Drop It
We had a blast removing the engine and cradle. This time took 3.5 hrs with my 15year old son and myself. Its actually quite straight-forward. Ours is an automatic, if yours is stick, it may be different. Any parts store has a Hanes Manual , which gives a checklist.
1. Build a Cradle out of Wood with Rollers- See Fiero Connection Magazine
2. Underneath- Disconnect Parking Brake Cable Diconnect Brake lines at Brake Housing and Mid attach point Disconnect 2 Trans Cooling Lines Disconnect Grouning Wire by Cooling Lines Disconnect Radiator/Water Pump lines-One on each side and one at the Firewall lower right
3. Topside disc Trans control cable-Leave Pulldown cable to INJ alone disc Cruise control Vacuum line disc air intake hose disc throttle cable disc heater hose at intake manifold disc dogbone at engine side Remove Battery and Cables- The Difference between the 84 and the others is the location of the terminal block. On the 85 and later, it is all by the battery, the 84 it is dead center on the firewall. They look forebaring, but just take a 1/4 inch socket right in the middle of it and the harness becomes unplugged. Spread the hold downs and slide all the wires out the side. You have now virtually all the electrical harness free and you can lay it over on the engine. You must dissassemble your console to get back at the ECM. There is a retaining clip on the harness that goes through the Firewall. remove same and shove the harness through. You have to undo the Assy Line Diagnostices Link line also- Basically remove the ECM. Disc oxygen sensor if tied at firewall disc A/C lines if no FREON , or remove Compressor without breaking the lines- Major Work.
4. If you already had put some penetrant on the four mount bolts, now is the time. Loosen up the front ones and remove the nuts. Now it becomes a matter of getting your Dolly positioned underneath and take presure off the mount bolts by raising or lowering the car. You may have to drive out the pins, but they will come right out by hand if the loads are right. Undo the rear vertical bolts and now the whole engine-trans cradle axle shafts-brakes disks and all are on the cradle. Woops-undo 3 10 mm nuts on top of each strut housing and the struts will be free with no alignement problems.
5. Gently raise the car- and in theory, the whole assy just stays put on the dolly. Check freqently while going up for misc lines we did not cover. Once you get it up, the engine and struts are about the same hight, so it can all be rolled out the right side.
6. Allways have safety items in use. Blocks under the front wheels- jack stands never get under the car unless it is well supported. the last minutes as you raise the rear about 3 feet are nervewracking to say the least. Once you roll everything out immediately lower the car back on to the jackstands and get it off the dangling hoist
7. Once you have it out, it is handy to get at the timing gear cover much more readily. We are after a vibration problem ourselves and are changing mounts hoses and belts while it is out. Hope this helps!!!!!!!
smithman North Texas Fieros
Tim I did this recently with an 84 to stick a small block 350 in it and its not hard, I did the entire job alone. What I did was drive the front of the car up onto ramps and then jacked the back up so the top of the rear wheel well arc was about 45 inches from the floor. From there I hooked the engine to a comealong from above, removed the 4 cradle bolts and lowered the whole thing down onto a dolly I made out of a pallet. You can probably use a creeper which will be lower to the ground so you wouldn't need the whole 45 inches of clearence. My car didn't have ac but I think you can unbolt the ac comp from it's mounting bracket and hang it off to the side with string or something this way you don't open the system and have to go thru evacuating and recharging the refrigerant system. I didn't have to do anything with the gas tank it's not attached to the cradle at least on an 84. As you start to remove the cradle whatever way you do it just go slowly and keep an eye out for anything you might have missed. There's a couple of ground wires from the block to the chasis you can miss easily - When I put a 350 in my 84 I did the same thing only I used a engine hoist to drop the cradle and then I could drop it right onto the legs of the engine hoist and roll it out through the passenger side wheel well. Make sure to use an engine hoist with caster wheels on all 4 corners and put jack stands under the car just forward of the front cradle bolts. Be careful because this is near the balance point on a fiero and when it is on the stands you can lean on the trunk and lift the front wheels up off the ramps. Tim Stroud
I posted the steps that I did to drop my cradle on my 86 SE-V6 about 3 weeks ago but I didn't save it. Here is a list of items in no particular order from memory that I removed.
1. Dogbone
2. Lower heater hose below dogbone
3. Cruise control cable
4. Alternator and ignition cooling tubes, the ones against the trunk. I didn't see this as a problem until the cradle was coming down and got snagged on them.
5. Shifter cables
6. Both brake calipers
7. E-brake cables and adjuster
8. McPherson strut to rear spindle bolts. (Note) If you don't want to get the car realigned, you can remove the struts at the top where they bolt to the towers and leave the spindle bolts intact but this makes it very difficult to swing the assembly away to gain access to the trans.
9. Rear locater struts, not sure of the technical name for them. The rods that align the rear spindles. This will allow you to pivot the spindle in order to make room to pull the axles out.
10. Air intake assembly
11. Battery cables, I removed the battery also
12. Rear cradle to frame bolts
13. I can't remember if it was necessary but I did unbolt the slave clutch cylinder. This will allow you to lower the cradle to gain access to the trans. Remember you will need the rear of the vehicle at least 3 feet in the air to do this. I used 4 truck jack stands that gave me plenty of room. Also be careful when you lower the cradle, the exhaust will hit the ground and also there is a cable from the firewall that will get stretched tight if you let it swivel too far down. Good luck, Brian.

FIERO\Engine\Drop It\Oil Pan
Trevor, you didn't say, but both 4 cyl and 6 cyl engines need to be lifted about 2" off of the front motor mount. You need to put a 2x4 under the crank pulley, and remove the engine mount bracket.
The 4 cyl and 88 6 cyl are the most difficult to get the bracket off.
The pan is "hanging" on the crankshaft. The 2" is needed for that clearance, and will usually clear the exhaust.
Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory
I've attached the Oil Pan Removal instructions that I wrote up for Ryan. Good luck.
Basically the problem is that you need to raise the front of the engine up about 4" - 6" so the pan will clear both the front engine mount bracket and the front main bearing cap.
Drain the oil (obviously) :-)
Remove the exhaust system from just ahead of the cat. Leave the manifolds and "Y" pipe in place. Remove the starter.
Remove the flywheel dust cover from the trans. I don't think I had to remove the AC compressor, but I'm not sure.
Remove the bolts from the "U" bracket that holds the front motor mount.
Remove the nuts that hold the front motor mount from the frame so it can flop around.
Remove one end of the dog bone and flip the dog bone out of the way (so the motor can move around more).
Put a block of wood under the pan and jack the front of the motor up about 6"
Put some blocks of wood between the front pulley and the frame and lower the motor down on them.
I had to keep adding wood to get enough clearance, but I think I ended up with a 4" - 6" pile of wood.
Remove the pan bolts and remove the pan. You'll find the pump pickup laying in the pan. I guarantee it. It's easy to figure out how it goes together.
The bottom of the pickup tube is a round thing and it should be flat and parallel to the pan when everything is assembled. I don't have welding equipment, so I found a welder to do it and he charged me $10 or $20.
The oil pump is held in by two bolts. When you remove it, there's a shaft that goes up into the distributer. Don't forget this when you put it back together because this is what drives the oil pump.
When you put it back together, use a new pan gasket and make sure all of the gasket surfaces are super clean. Don't over do it on the little tube of silicon that comes with the gasket. You just need a little bit on the corners where the pan meets the front cover and the rear main cap.
Pretty straight forward job, and it'll probably take about 4 hours, not counting time to get it welded. I think it took me a little over 2 hours to get it apart, and about the same to get it back together.
Remember, my car is an '88 5-spd, so yours might be a little bit different. Doug Chase Everett, WA
As far as I know, the oil pan for the 2.8L Fiero V6 is no longer available. However, there is an alternative that can be adapted that is still being manufactured.. It is the oil pan for the 3.4L V6 GM part number 10115790. (Price about $72.) This oil pan is slightly deeper than the 2.8L oil pan and will require a slight modification of the front motor mount for clearance,but the pan does fit perfectly. The only other item needed is a plug for the hole where the oil level sensor fits on the side. I have not figured out the plug size as yet but I believe that an a plug with an 11mm thread size is the one. I'm still checking this out.
Perhaps another list member knows the size of the plug to use and can pass it on. Ed if you are reading this....please .help!!!
Dennis LaGrua Neshanic, NJ

You need to use a "chip" meant for the features that your car has. My web pages have a list of the different chips. Because the chips aren't interchangeable between the two different ECMs, you essentially need to use an 85 ECM in your 85.Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:
the ECM's are different from 85-86 2.8l, but (for example) as long as you use an 85 chip in an 85 ECM, it will work fine in an 86 car. You can not, however, use an 85 chip in an 86 computer, the car won't run. Obviously you need to use a prom calibrated for the tranny in your car(auto-4spd. etc.). 86-88 ECM's are interchangeable. aljf
Is is harmful to ground the diagnostic terminal after the car is started and is already running?
Yes it can be harmful, because you are grounding the ECM and the prom chip can get a surge.

The most likely culprit is the EGR tube. They frequently crack and will cause a 35 code and a high idle. Start your car and let it idle. Take some WD-40 or brake cleaner and spray the EGR tube where it connects to the EGR valve and the plenum. If the RPM's go up then your tube is bad and will need to be replaced. Replacing the tube isn't very hard, but is a semi-involved process. There are a couple of ways to go about it. The way I do it is to remove the distributor to gain access to the plenum bolts. While the distributor is out you can replace the O ring as preventative maintenance. The key to this method is to mark the position of the rotor before removing the distributor. This way you won't mess up the timing.
The other method is removing the upper plenum itself. It takes a bit longer, but some people prefer this method.
To test if an EGR valve is any good, you can do a simple test.
Grab the top of the EGR and let your fingers wrap underneath the top.
Squeeze the EGR and see if you can compress the diaphragm. If you can't, throw it out.
If you can, while holding it in, block off the nipple that comes out of it and, while holing your finger on the nipple, release the diaphragm.
If the diaphragm leaks, it won't stay "sucked" up into itself.
If it sneaks back down while you're locking the nipple, toss it out.
The factory (Helms) service manual has pages of diagnostics to help determine which part.
I have an 87 coupe with no cruise and no cannister. By the way...many of you with EGR related trouble codes may want to throughly inspect your vaccum cannister if you have one. Mine was slightly rusty but just enough to have a few pinholes in it to cause problems. My local dealer said this part was discontinued(what part do you need isn't discontinued?) so I made one from a 32 oz juice can, a drill with a hole saw and some silicone sealant. If you wan't more detailed instructions e-mail me and I can give them to you.
This little bugger is common with us V-6 owners. It's an EGR bypass tube, available from your local GM dealer for a pretty penny. GM part #10137017 ('85-'87) or #10137021 ('88).
Tonight, out of the blue, while driving, i noticed that my engine had an overall lack of power. i have an 87 GT 6 cyl 5 speed and it felt like half the power had been taken away from the engine. it also sounded much louder than usual, even the exaust. does anyone know what the cause could be? i'm also very low on gas, could that cause it? it's almost on the E line. thanks in advance.
Check to see that the EGR pipe that runs from EGR valve to under the upper intake plenum is still intact. These break quite regularly, and cause the symptoms above.
Eric '86 SE V-6
Ok, my SE has a problem related to this: Code 32. It only goes on after driving for 15 or 20 minutes and doesn't noticably effect engine performance, except at idle. What part of the ERG system is at fault? I think the Haynes manual points to the solenoid. I'll try swapping the solenoid from my GT if that would be valid.
A cracked tube will cause a high idle error. The vacuum sensor in the EGR system is in the control system tubes and really won't see a crack in the EGR bypass tube.
It seems to me that a code 32 will be set by a faulty EGR solenoid My V6 did the 32 thing for a while until I removed the solenoid and rapped it around a bit to free it up. Make sure that all the little tubes on that little widget are not broken. They cracked to pieces on mine. I got some new tubing, freed the solenoid and... shhh! (whisper) no... more... code... 32.
I do believe that the EGR gasket should be installed dry, right list? Correct. No sealer is needed or recommended. Eric
Making this hose is not hard but you will need to drill and tap the EGR flanges for the new hose. I took a cracked EGR tube and cut the tube from the flanges. Next I ground the flanges smooth on a bench grinder and drilled (enlarged ) the holes and tapped the holes to a 3/8 NPT thread. I used Russell Endura #8 AN to 3/8 NPT male hose connectors to the prepared EGR flanges. Summit sells these adapters for $4.00 each.
I made gaskets from both flange ends ends from Mr. Gasket sheet asbestos high temp gasket material. You could also use stock Pontiac gaskets. I next bolted the new improved flanges back to the EGR valve and to the plenum,. Next I measured an old EGR tube and added 1/2" for extra play. I went to a local hose shop and asked that they make up a stainless braided telfon lined hose with #8 AN female ends. It must be teflon to take the heat.
The total measurement that I provided was from end to end with the fittings attached. The custom SS teflon hose cost me $25. You install the modified EGR flanges first then all you do is hand thread the female hose ends of the custom teflon hose to the #8 male fittings on the flanges and tighten ( not too tight) with a stubby open end wrench. You now an EGR tube that should last a lifetime and cost about $40.
The real advantages to this EGR tube is that it is long lasting, can be disconnected form the EGR tube or the plenum in less than a minute and costs 1/3 the price of a near identical item sold by IRM. . Again-- this is NOT my write-up. I'd have had no clue whatsoever about this.
The code is for egr failure. The egr valve is only 2 months old, and the vacume lines that were junk I replaced. I am completely lost and need help on what else it could be.
Easy one; replace the EGR solenoid controller; its the thing at the other end of the vacuum line from the EGR valve. Real easy to replace, cost is about $80 though, and that was from Chriswell Chevrolet. Takes about 10 minutes to replace.
I had a similiar problem with my 86 GT. If you look on the right of the engine near the thermastat housing there is a bunch of hoses that also have to do with the EGR. One of the hoses had come off which resulted in the EGR code triggering the check engine light. I replaced the hose and the other ones that looked like may go bad. Fixed the problem completely. Good luck.
A friend of mine recently acquired a V-6 Fiero with (of course) a cracked EGR tube. Rather than replace it with another Fiero tube (which he couldn't find in a local salvage yard), he scrounged a tube off a 2.8 Firebird. The bolts on the manifold flange were spaced a bit differently so he used his grinder and made the bolt holes into slots which allowed the tube to bolt up to the Fiero manifold. The only thing is... the "new" tube doesn't have the little heat blanket. Dunno if that's any real problem or not. Personally, I'd rather have the blanket just because any Fiero people who look under there will know it's not "correct".
"bucking" when easy cruising-4cyl-- It might be part of the egr system. The first check is to pull the vacum line at the egr valve, plug the hose and drive the car. It's egr related if the symptoms disappear.
Try something easy first. Take off the vacuum hose to the EGR and plug it. If it cures the problem, replace the EGR valve.
To test if an EGR valve is any good, you can do a simple test. Grab the top of the EGR and let your fingers wrap underneath the top. Squeeze the EGR and see if you can compress the diaphragm. If you can't, throw it out. If you can, while holding it in, block off the nipple that comes out of it and, while holing your finger on the nipple, release the diaphragm. If the diaphragm leaks, it won't stay "sucked" up into itself. If it sneaks back down while you're locking the nipple, toss it out.
One thing you can do to both check the cat and to be able to drive it, is remove the EGR valve. Since you don't have the EGR tube all you need to do is remove the cap you used to block off the opening at the EGR valve. If your car starts and runs with the EGR valve off, then your cat is likely bad. Since it runs you can now drive it, although I wouldn't drive it too gets really hot under the hood like this. I have done this once before when the cat plugged up on me while I was 20 miles from home. It allowed it to run well enough to get it home. Good luck. Mike Valentine Brighton, CO
. We went for a ride, he then had me stop and pop the trunk, he pulled the plastic tube that connects to the EGR valve off and it now accelerates smoothly! What do ya'll make of that?
Sounds like it's time might be to replace that EGR valve or EGR solenoid. if the problem stopped by removing th vacuum line then the solenoid is the problem Jon Davis

exhaust manifold removal--------FieroHelp

Glowing exhuast manifolds can be caused by a variety of problems. The most common is from an overly lean mixture caused by a broken EGR tube or large vacuum leak . It could also be due to a clogged injector, defective injector wiring harness, the initial timing setting could be off, or your timing chain has slipped a notch or stretched.
Bad injector? That's kind of a worse case scenario. Injectors rarely go bad. I'd check for vaccum leaks first. That was my problem. Also check the vaccum cannister on the back firewall that looks like a juice or coffee can...they can get rust pinholes and cause a lean condition. You can make a new cannister out of a juice or coffee can as my dealer could no longer get it. --
White "smoke" is either one of two things - unburnt gas or water. I would say, only because it goes away after warm-up, that you have something wrong with your cold start system. The IAC (Idle Air Control) valve could be a culprit, as I have seen them get a black "gunk" on the pintle valve and cause it not to close completely. This allows air to pass by it, which screws up the ECM and makes it adjust the mixture with more raw fuel. Of course, this is an extreme condition, but worth looking at. Also take a look at the sensor that feeds the ECM the coolant temperature. It could be faulty, and be producing mixed readings. Otherwise, I can't think of anything that would cause the problem and *not* toss out a check engine light, except for the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor), but that wouldn't be affected by a cold start situation.
GASKETS Also on the front exhaust manifold there is a heat shield under the manifold. (snip) Seems somewhat strange they use the heat shield as part of the gasket with no gasket between it and the head.
On all V-6 models, the ends of the exhaust manifolds do not seal with any type of gasket. They are a metal-to-metal seal, with 2 bolts on each end. Tighten each end evenly. If you tighten one of the end bolts too much, and the other too little, the seal will not work.
The *only* exhaust seal, or "donut", is where the cross-over pipe meets the front cat pipe. That is held on by 2 bolts with springs. If you separate those, you may have to replace them because they corrode. When tightening these bolts, tighten them until they bottom out.
Hope this helps! Eric '86 SE V-6
yeah. "strange" is not quite the word I use. I toss this peice of scrap-metal every time I find it. I know there are list members who swear it saved them from an engine fire, but it seems a shield can be cut-down and screwed on somewhere else and do the same job. It's part of the "recall" work. Also check to see that you probably have some funny pipe running on the firewall but does nothing. more of the wonderful 'recall' work. remove the pipe, allow the EGR solenoid to breathe air, w/o the vacuum hose (it's filtered) and plug the air cleaner itself with a large plug.
I also use zinc studs and nuts from a 3.4L lumina exhaust system. The studs and nuts for their exhaust manifolds work nice. Some are long, and need cutting (by the a/c and alt.), but that's easy.
ask the dealer for 1996 Lumina W-body VIN-X exhaust studs and nuts (real studs, real staked nuts, for real people--like US!!). zinc-plated. never rust. strong. fit fine (a couple studs have to be shortened by the a/c and alternator) and you can stack two nuts on a stud for those wonderful heat sheilds.
Ain't another Gm car with more *&^#*&$^#$ manifold fastening than a V-6 Fiero. What did we do to deserve it? I have no idea WHY this list has suffered in the dark for so long. I know I did.
Paul, we are using Au-Ve-Co brand studs, part # 18514. They have a torx tip for tightening, and are for the Saturn intake manifold. We then use the same brand, part # 11644 hex flange nut.
Haven't had any problems, and have even used the studs for headers. That co also makes a 1 mm smaller then norma nut for tighter places.
Broken exhaust manifold bolts, We have had about 400 of them.
We have a portable welder come to the shop, he "shocks" the broken bolt and builds a "T" across it with welding rod.
He has a slotted socket that grabs the "T". He has removed over 900 (Pontiac recall and us), failing only 2 times. This is done by just getting the a/c compressor out of the way.
Ed Parks The Fiero Factory
says.... Here's the reply I got from
about the hooker headers The P/N 4703 is the one you want, It will bolt right up.
P/N 4703 un-coated headers, retail price is $343.51 our price is $289.60 plus tax & shipping P/N 4703-1 coated headers, retail price is $620.75 our price is $523.34 plus tax & shipping.
The Metallic ceramic coating looks like polished aluminum, won't rust or blue like chrome, adds 6-9 HP., & lowers under hood temps.
Neil Matranga ,Inc "The Ultimate Online Speed Shop" 2900 Bristol, Suite B 304 Costa Mesa,Ca.92626
(714) 755-1788; FAX (714)755-1798 ----------------

Ron, Actually the power comes from the battery (+) to the injector, and then to the computer. The way it works is the computer allows 4 amps of current to flow through the injector to open it and then as soon as it senses it has opened, it limits it to one amp. I have had this problem 2 times on my car, and one time it was the computer itself and the other it was a connection problem at the computer. You may pull your computer out and check the connections and clean them, if any of the pins look a little bent in, use a VERY small screw driver ot maybe even a nail to get in there and bend it back out. Not very much at all, just enough to make contact, you don't want to weaken the connector or you will have to get a new wiring harness if it breaks. If you have a volt meter, make sure you are getting 12 volts on the red pin at the injector (with the connector off of the injector) with the ignition on, if not check your fuses, most specificly the ECM fuse. If that is Ok and your meter has an OHM scale on it, make sure the injector is reading 1.42 ohms to 1.62. If it reads a lot of ohms, it's bad, if it reads none at all, your fuse should have blown (or your computer) because it would allow too much current to flow. If that is OK, take the Ohm meter and have some one crank the engine and connect one probe to the blue wire (pulled off the injector) and one to an engine ground and make sure the computer is shorting the blue wire to ground. If it isn't, then your computer is most likely the problem or it is a bad blue wire running from your Injector to the EMC. An easy way to check that is take a wire and connect the blue wire to ground (with the ignition off and the computer pulled) and take your meter on the ohms scale and check the blue wire at the computer connector (White Connector pin# 8) and make sure it is reading 0 ohms or VERY little, if not then you have a bad wire, if it is reading ok and you have checked everything else, your computer is bad. Hope this helps, and if you have any more questions, feel free to e-mail me.
Luke '84 2M4 Turbo


Mike LeCompte 86 GT (i'll let everyone know how she runs as soon as i'm finished) yeah i just did a complete on block head job to my v-6. It's a lot of work. Requires taking off the throttle body, both intake plenums, boths valve covers, the fuel rail(running a risk of breaking injectors comming out a set of injectors is about 400 bucks as cheap as i've seen) Once all that stuff is off, you can start on the valve train. I replaced; valve springs, valve spring retainers, valve locks, valve seals, pushrods, roller rockers, pivotballs, lock nuts, you'll need a tool to pump the cylinders up and an air compressor to change springs, valve seals, spring retainers and locks. If you want to just do rockers and pushrods, you could do that but i figured i'm this far i might as well do everything. The fiero cam is hydraulic and the valves need to be adjusted, you have to do it with the pushrod method. to adjust the intake valves you need to turn the motor over in the direction the it normaly spins, bring the motor around untill the exhuast pushrod begins to rise. now that cylinder is said to be on the base circle of the intake lobe. tighten the adjusting nut so all the slack is taken out of the rockerarm and pushrod. by lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers when tightening the nut you will feel a point where there is a slight resistance this is called zero lash, now turn the nut one more half turn and you'll be all set, you will have the ideal preload for the rocker arm, pushrod and lifter. now do this procedure for the remaining 5 intake valves. now on to the exhuast valves. turn the engine over untill the intake pushrod rises all the way up, go past maximum lift and approximately 1/2 to 2/3's of the way back down. now you're on the base circle of the exhuast lobe. rotate the exhuast pushrod with your fingers as you tighen the adjusting nut. When you feel resistance on the pushrod you are at zero lash. tighten the nut one half turn more. repeat for the other 5 exhaust vavles.

But without hearing your noise, it's hard to say that this is the problem. Could be a leaky exhuast manifold for all i know. Without hearing the noise it's hard to say. Good luck, it's a lot of work. Of course while you're there you might as well take your exhuast manifolds off and port them out. I was supprised! i was hoping i could get every bolt out of the head without breaking one, but i was preparred to take the heads off if a bolt did break! got every bolt out without incident! yippie!

Mike LeCompte 86 GT (i'll let everyone know how she runs as soon as i'm finished)

------ 4cyl-
I recently did head work on my 84 Fiero 2m4. Im not sure how knowledgeable you are about that stuff, but in my opinion, I think you should have the head work done. Do you NEED the car for daily transportation? Or do you have something else you can drive? Installing a new cat on a bad engine will eventually clog the cat and you'll have to get a new one again (though it will be under warranty and they are required by law to replace it free of charge within the two years you bought it). However, why not go ahead and get the head work done. It really isn't THAT hard of a job... when compared to the V6, the L4 is like a piece of cake. Don't worry about where all the EGR hoses go, it's pretty simple to remember where they go. Though I would recommend taking a picture (with the air cleaner off) of the engine compartment to show you where everything goes.

You should own a GOOD torque wrench and a breaker bar. Do not buy the click torque wrench... that's crap!.. you need to get one of the long ones with the needle gage... it's more accurate. Overall.. expect to pay about $300 total for the job including a complete tune-up.

$80-$100 for the machine shop to steam clean your head, refurbish / replace the valves, install new springs, and install new valve seals. When you get the head back, it will look like it's BRAND NEW. The only problem is.. that it won't be painted anymore.. so it's up to you whether or not you want to paint it. The head doesn't HAVE to be painted... what I did.. was install it without paint.. it began to get a tad bit of surface rust, and then I sprayed it with that EXTEND anti-rust stuff.. and all the very thin layer of surface rust turned into black primer.... looks great now.

$100 for a good tune-up including new oxygen sensors, new EGR hoses, and a new MAP sensor. $55 for the Head gasket set, this includes every single gasket you could possibly imagine.

You may even want to get a set of new lifters.. it's up to you, they say it's BAD to install new lifters onto an old camshaft.. if that's the case, you may want to REBUILD your old lifter with parts from the new lifter using only the old lifter's casing. A set should run you another $50 bucks.

I really should do a write-up on a valve job for the L4.

In any case, here goes....
First you'll need to remove all the crap. Just disconnect all the spark plug wires and set them aside.. it would probably be a good idea to label them, even though you'll be replacing the distributor cap anyway. Remove the air cleaner, the ducting pipe, and all those EGR hoses. Next remove the ignition coil and all the other stuff. After that's done, remove the intake manifold and the exhaust manifold. It's a good idea to drain the antifreeze first as the engine coolant MAY spill out into the engine when you remove the intake manifold. Don't worry about bolts breaking, apparently, the bolts on the L4 are MUCH stronger than they are on the V6... it's not a bad idea to coat them all with WD-40 or PB Blaster or something a day before you start.

Next remove the valve cover. When the valve cover is removed, you will then need to loosen the rocker arms. Loosen them just enough so you can slip the pushrods out. Place them in shoebox with holes and number them. It's a good idea to put holes in the lid and place them through those holes so you know what order they go into.. it really isn't THAT important.. but.. they say it is because if you don't, the pushrods, rocker arms and lifters will take a little bit more wear than they should for a short while till they break in again.

Once you have all that stuff off.. then remove the rocker arms and label them, and the retaining clips too. I like to wrap them in aluminum wrap to prevent rust or moisture from getting in while I work on the head.

Next undo the head bolts... these should be throughouly soaked anyway so you can get right at them.. it's almost impossible for one of those to break. Remove them with the breaker bar (it's only the name.. don't worry). Once all the head bolts are off, you will need to pry the head off... using a pry bar, wedge the pry bar between the block and the lip of the head.. do NOT attempt to fit it between them, this lip im talking about is located externally on the left side of the head... you don't want to scratch the top of the block or the bottom of the head.

The head should pry loose and you'll probably see some more antifreeze spill out. The head weighs about 50 some odd pounds so brace yourself. Lift it out and take it to NAPA. Tell them you want a valve job and a cleaning and new springs... they should do it all for about 80 bucks.

While the head is off, invest in a bunch of razor blades... you will need to religiously scrape the entire to of the block (where the head was) to completely remove all the old head gasket material... make sure there is nothing left... the blocks never warp, so you won't need to worry about plaining it. Now that you have all that room there, it might be a good idea to replace your coolant hoses and some other things..

you should go out and buy all new EGR hoses and the whole tune-up kit while the head is away. It normally takes a week. While the head is off, you should have plastic bags in each piston chamber and cover the top of the engine with aluminum foil so rain will drip and slide off the top of the block.

It may also be a good idea to get NEW head bolts.. I ended up reusing the old ones... by accident.

Ok, when you get the new head back, fit it with the new head gasket to make sure everything is ok and matches up, then put it on the engine block and make sure that matches up properly too.. on mine, there were three very small water ports that weren't large enough.. I "port matched" them.

You should buy two kinds of spray cans..... Copper Head Gasket sealant, and Anti Seize Spray. EVERY SINGLE BOLT that you install back on your Fiero should be sprayed with Anti Seize Spray... if General Motors had done this when they built the car, it would be much easier for us to begin with. Spray liberally the Copper spray all over the head gasket on both sides... MAKE ABSOLUTE SURE THAT THE HEAD GASKET IS GOING IN THE PROPER WAY AND NOT BACKWARDS!!! Otherwise you'll have to buy a new head gasket and do it again.

Place the head on the block and push it down. It's a good idea to put the head bolts on at this time. Using the Chilton's manual that you should have, torque the head bolts in the proper sequence, you NEED to torque them three times. Each time you go through the whole sequence.

The first sequence, all the bolts should be torque to 30 pounds, next, 60 pounds, and then.... 90 pounds.

With every other bolt, make sure to fit it with your hand first to be sure that the bolt is the right side and length.. on my first attempt, I put a bolt that was too long into the thermostat housing port and it broke off.. had to have it removed, drilled, and tapped.

Once the head is properly torqued down, then you can install the intake manifold and the exhaust manifold. Once those are done, then re-install everything else.

One thing I forgot to mention was that my intake manifold was originally painted black and was really dirty, I took that to the machine shop to have it pressure cleaned too.. and it came back shiny aluminum. I prefer that look. Oh yeah, the head gasket set does not come with the throttle body mounting plate / gasket, you'll need to order that separately.

Honestly, if you ask me... I got everything from the Fiero Store.... all the parts... it just seems to me that if your going to get stuff for you Fiero.. and they are as critical as these, why not get them from the Fiero store.. they've tested all that stuff already and KNOW that it fits your Fiero.


BE SURE TO BURP YOUR COOLANT SYSTEM OF AIR when you first start the car after all this stuff. I didn't do it the first time and I cracked my head and had to do it ALL over again.

First fill up the coolant from the thermostat housing, REMOVE THE THERMOSTAT for the WHOLE TIME. Remove the radiator cap. Fill the thermostat housing until it begins to pour out the radiator. Recap the radiator. Then cap the thermostat housing WITHOUT the thermostat once it's filled. Run the car for about 10 seconds.

Remove the thermostat housing cap and fill it up to the brim again.

Run the car for about 20 seconds.

Remove the cap again and fill it.

Keep doing this until the level stays the same.

Then run it for about 5 minutes and then remove the cap just to check.

Drive the car around for a week and then replace the fuel filter.

Also, BE SURE to change the oil and filter before you go running the car after the rebuild.

THEN you can install the new cat and your car will be running cleaner than the new cars.

Todd ----------------

My '88 Helms Manual would indicate that in addition to the IAC and MAP sensor, there could be a fault with your Oxygen Sensor that causes the idle problem, and of course a cracked EGR tube is a prime suspect in sudden high idle conditions, however you indicate that you may have checked that already in diagnosing vacuum leaks, so if none of these things are the best guess is that your throttle body and IAC pintle are carboned up, especially if your high idle is not steady but pulsates 50-100 rpm.

You might check the Oxygen Sensor if it's not new, and of course you should check the EGR tube if you haven't already, but you also might consider one of Ed Parks
decarbonizing kits


surging after warm.....

Have you checked all your vaccum lines? Also check the vaccum cannister on the left rear of the engine compartment. These tend to get small pinholes of rust on them and may cause the problem you are experiencing. GM doesn't carry these anymore. One can be made from a 32 oz tin can. If anyone is interested in how I did it, e-mail me and I'll fill you in.


An air leak in the EGR system will cause high idle. Not the valve, which usually makes the engine surge when it's shot. Check the lines... nothing special, get at dealer or parts store.



Lots of things can cause a high idle at start on a FI car. Stuck idle speed controller, assorted vacuum leaks, malfunctioning EGR, leaky intake gaskets, etc. My lean is toward something flaky with the ISC/ECM.


If you installed a new throttle body you had to of swapped the IAC (Idle Air Control) Motor over to the new throttle body. The IAC controls the idle speed by bypassing a controlled amount of air around the throttle plate. (In lieu of controlling the throttle plate position). The IAC is probably in the wrong position and is bypassing too much air causing the idle to be high.

Whenever you take the IAC Motor out, or especially if you install a new throttle body you need to reset the IAC to what could be called a home position.

To do this you can use a scan tool (most people don't have one), or you can simply drive the car above a speed of 45 mph and the computer in your car will automatically move the IAC into the home position for you. If this does not work, look for the obvious thinks like a vaccume hose that has fallen off, nitrous leaking into the intake or the wiring to the IAC being damaged.

If you don't find anything obvious, then try readjusting the throttle plate adjustment screw. The throttle plate on the new throttle body may just be open a little to much.

Be sure to mark the position of the adjustment screw before making any adjustments so that you can return the screw back to the position that it was originally set in case this doesn't work.

Craig 88GT


Adding Engine Illumination Lights to Your Fiero After years of admiration, I finally bought my own Fiero, a super '88 GT with T-Tops. Naturally it draws attention and I have to show it off. One problem I quickly discovered is how dark the engine compartment is at night. The only light is in the one in the trunk. You can't see engine ... its totally black. I feel that an engine compartment light is mandatory for potential road problems and emergency repairs. My solution, add a new light in the trunk lid and have it turn on with the existing trunk light. Because the trunk lid covers both the carpeted trunk cavity and the engine compartment, I wanted a light with a finished quality and a proportionally correct look. I didn't want just mount a bare bulb under the lid, I wanted something with a lens. The light also had be bright enough to be useful. I tried several different fixtures and a variety of bulbs but nothing was quite right. Nice lensed fixtures were too dim and larger bulbs were too hot which softened or melted the lens. To get ideas I started checking out other cars in parking lots trying to subtly look at dome and other courtesy lights. I finally found one that looked pretty good. It's made by Hella KG, (770) 631-7500 and used in pairs in the trunk lid "lip" of a 1991 Saab 900 4-door sedan which were used to illuminate the rear license plate and trunk. I found that they are a custom size for Saab but can be purchased from Saab dealers for about $18 each or, as I got mine, from a parts yard at $10 for two. The Saab part number is: 8567753 I used both lamps in the trunk lid latch brace near the end of the lid, one at each side. I figured this would give me good cross illumination. Since the trunk light (ground) switch is mounted with the trunk latch, I directly connected the ground from the new lights to the white wire from the switch. I then ran an orange wire out of the lid with the other wires, through a separate, single plug connector, spliced to the orange wire in the harness going towards the trunk light on the driver's side of the car. Since the new lamp holders are recessed, I was able to cut away part of the recessed side of the lens to let heat escape. This allowed me to change from a 3.0 candlepower lamp to Wagner #11004 lamps (9.55 candlepower). The light now is super (almost too good) and the lenses run pretty cool. Best of all, you can now see the engine really good at anytime day or night.
email: Ray Paulk

FIERO\Engine\Misc. Repairs
Questions: Can these little vacuum lines be repaired? Does anyone have the part available?
Bill - I have used heat shrinkable plastic tubing to repair such breaks and they seem to have held up well. If you need reinforcing, I use short sections of discarded telescoping antenna masts.
This essentially is very thin wall brass tubing. Cut a section (an inch or so long) and slip the broken pieces into it, having first slipped a piece of heat shrink tubing on. Then, when you shrink the tubing over it, you'll get a leakproof repair.
John White < >88GT
You can also get rubber hose that will slip over the tubing.
They sell these types of fittings at any decent automotive shop. Be it NAPA or Rose Autos or Super Track And Auto. Or you could always get flexible EGR hose.
If you are talking about a V6, look at article by Herb Adams
This is the engine part of an article by Herb Adams where he explains the experiments he did to make his Fiero race cars perform better and the results. He discusses both the things that worked and those that didn't.

Here are the part numbers:
MSD Ignition Box: MSD 6A or A(L) w. rev. limiter
MSD GM Dual Connector Coil Harness P/N 8876
MSD Blaster Dual Connector Coil P/N 8226
The combination of the above should really help "UP THE VOLTS" in your Fiero with HEI igniton. The only exception is the 88's L4 coupes with DIS system. These cannot use an MSD igntion..
Dennis LaGrua
The Jacobs OEM coil looks the same as the original GM unit.
OEM design replacement coil for the Fiero's is part # 380677.
Be sure to ask for that part #. The first one I ordered came thru as a round chrome design.

My car will run great sometimes, then It has no power. I started pulling spark plug wires, and the 3 cyls close to the fire wall are not working....?
Since the fuel injectors fire as banks of three ( three on the front then three on the back ) I would say you have a loose/broken wire controlling the back side fuel rail. This would cause intermitent working and loss of a whole side of the engine as you describe.
After checking all the connectors....use a continuity tester to test wiring harness integrity replace loose/broken wire
if no multimeter is available.... trace down the wireing harness and find the wire that you can "wiggle" and make things work /not work. Then replace that wire or section of wire.
Martin D. White
White "smoke" is either one of two things - unburnt gas or water. I would say, only because it goes away after warm-up, that you have something wrong with your cold start system. The IAC (Idle Air Control) valve could be a culprit, as I have seen them get a black "gunk" on the pintle valve and cause it not to close completely.
This allows air to pass by it, which screws up the ECM and makes it adjust the mixture with more raw fuel. Of course, this is an extreme condition, but worth looking at. Also take a look at the sensor that feeds the ECM the coolant temperature. It could be faulty, and be producing mixed readings.
Otherwise, I can't think of anything that would cause the problem and *not* toss out a check engine light, except for the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor), but that wouldn't be affected by a cold start situation.
tach jumps- engine surges-
I have had this happen to three of my Fieros. 1 , a 4 cyl and the other 2 were V-6. This was a prelude to the pick up coil "goin south".
I put in new pickup coils and the tach was normal again.
I'm not ruling out the tach filter being the culprit, but pickup coil was bad for me on 3 different cars.
Since you say the engine surges, I would suggest unplugging the tach filter and running the car to see if the problem goes away. You won't have a tach, but if the motor still surges, it's not the tach filter.
Hope this helps get your problem fixed.
When I Idle things seem fine, When I start out, 1st and 2nd things also seem fine as long as I'm accellerating, but when I am cruising in town at like 20-30 mph in a lower geer, it spits and sputters like it wants to go, but something is holding it back.
Generally, a failing fuel pump will cause the O2 sensor to show a lean code.
Your problem sounds more like a failing TPS (that may not set a code but can be caught with a scan tool). It is prone to failure on 84-86's due to position next to EGR heat, especially if the heat shield is missing. If not that, may be timing failure from ignition module or ECM.
Ed Parks

mark the harmonic balancer (engine off please - let's not lose fingers over this!) with either soap stone or some white paint.
The balancer should have 3 grooves in it, but only one of them is really wide (when compared to the other two). If he has to put a wrench on the engine to turn it over a few times, that's fine too.
The correct mark might be on the top at that point. Mark up the wider groove so he can see it and then basically follow the steps on the trunk panel emission decal. (Take a base idle reading, then jump the ALDL connector and re-read the same marks, etc ..)
The mark he emphasized is TDC (top dead center). If I'm not mistaken, each "point" on the timing tab is 2°, and when he loosens up the distributor and twists the heck outta it, he'll find a suitable reading.
Eric '88 Yellow Formula '86 Pro-street GT
A trick that's easier than averaging #1 and #4 is to clip the timing light onto the coil wire. This will cause the light to flash too often, but only two of the flashes (#1 and #4) happen when the timing mark is near the timing tab.
Firing Order:
L4 - 1, 3, 4, 2
V6 - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
V6 Front Bank (Firewall) : 2, 4, 6
Rear Bank (Trunk) : 1, 3, 5

FIERO\Engine\Timing\Timing Gear 4cyl
1. Disconnect battery
2. Deck lid (could have stayed on - easier to work on car with it off)
3. Air cleaner assembly
4. EGR valve (blocks valve cover bolt)
5. Valve cover (may need special puller/tool)
6. Fuel lines
7. Throttle plate & linkage
8. TPS & MAP conectors
9. Vacuum hoses & spark plugs
10. Intake manifold (left on coolant hose, just hung manifold over into trunk. Watch out for some lost coolant on floor)
11. Loosen rocker nuts, swing rockers to side. Pull out push rods, note where the came from so they can go back in same location.
12. Side cover on engine where lifters are.
13. lifter retainer clips
14. lifters - put in numbered 3oz. Dixie cups so they stay clean and can go back in same location.
15. Oil pump gear
16. (Pre 87 cars - remove distributor ?)
17. Braided ground strap (we broke ours because we didn't see it)
18. Starter
19. Exhaust system
20. Both rear wheels
21. Both rear calapers & Emergency brake cable (do not disconnect calipers from lines)
22. Inner wheel well lining on Right side
23. Left strut at top (3 bolts)
24. Remove Right strut completely (mark position on knuckle so you don't have to go to an alignment shop)
25. Put floor jack under cradle, remove two rear bolts, lower cradle.
26. Fan belt
27. Crankshaft pulley (may need puller)
28. Timing cover (DO NOT need to remove motor mount or support engine)
29. Camshaft thrust plate retaining bolts
30. Carefully pull out camshaft - have old gear pressed off & new on. Align timing marks and work backwards.
31. Change engine oil
32. Make sure you have the correct intake gasket!
Special tools needed:
Valve cover removal tool - maybe could have done it with a tap by a rubber hammer. DO NOT pry cover off or you will bend flange.
Had to fabracate a puller for flywheel pulley. Used two 1/4" butterfly toggle bolts about 3" long and a piece of oak flooring.
Drilled holes so toggle bolts could slip inside holes in front of pulley. Placed a socket on the shaft end and tightened screws to butterflys. Pulley came off without bending or messing up groves.
Very small 10 mm socket to fit in cam gear holes and remove thrust plate nuts. Ended up slightly grinding down a 1/4" drive socket to fit - one with thin walls would have done it as-is.
Good collection of metric sockets, extensions, universal joint, and wrenches in at least 3/8" drive - 1/2" and 1/4" helpful.
I have air tools that really made the job easier.
Think the biggest nuts are on the Struts at the lower knuckle - was it a 7/8" SAE that worked OK on my impact wrench?
Hope you don't have to repeat the job on your car - it is a bitch. But, it can be done at home and save a bundle!
From: Randy T. Agee
----- another one--------
(DRAFT COPY - may not be complete) Another way to change cam gear, with engine in car
If your engine hasn't been worked on, then you can expect the timing cover and oil pan to be "glued" in place with RTV. Be careful when prying them apart. I would suggest you buy a new timing cover. For $30, it is worth the price.
Cam gears: You have two replacement choices.
· Original fiber (many aftermarket sources) · Aluminum (Melling number 2524 for cam gear or 2524S for cam and crank gear)
If you choose aluminum, here is the information on Melling (, the maker of the Aluminum cam gear.
"Our parts catalog reflects the data from G.M. a to which part fits what year vehicle. We have to follow O.E. recommendations for these listings to provide proper warranty protection for the parts we sell.
It may be true that the 2542S will work on a 1987 engine, but G.M. doesn't say so, and we can not warranty any parts used on different years than what our catalog lists.
Regards, Mark Richardson Catalog Mgr.
Melling Engine Parts"
So if you choose the Aluminum gear (2524 or the set 2524S), Melling doesn't show it as available for the 87-88 Fiero 4 cyls.
Tools: Normal hand tools, metric Engine lift Jackstands Cam Gear Replacement Tool by Jeremy Hodge
Steps for cam replacement:
1. Buy a manual, Helms, Haynes, Chiltons, etc.
2. Remove battery
3. Remove battery shield
4. Remove belt (turn the tensioner bolt to the right on 87-88 Fieros to loosen belt)
5. Remove dogbone
6. Remove "L" bracket connecting alternator to intake (87-88 Fieros)
7. Remove top alternator bolt
8. Put rear of car on jackstands
9. Drain oil
10. Remove oil filter
11. Put engine lift in position so as you can connect a chain to the engine at the dogbone bracket and the loop next to the battery.
12. Lift engine to lessen the weight on the mounts
13. Remove passenger side wheel
14. Remove rubber splash shield
15. Remove crankshaft pulley.
16. Remove altenator and lower alternator bracket… set alternator aside or remove from car
17. Remove metal shield from frame of car, under the a/c compressor
18. Remove wiring from A/C compressor
19. Unbolt AC compressor and AC brackets (front and rear), set A/C compressor off to the side.
20. Unbolt the exhaust from the exhaust manifold, remove 4 springs that hold exhaust to frame, near catalytic converter. Let exhaust hang… you may want to wrap the exhaust tips with cloth to protect the paint
21. Unbolt the engine mount
22. Lift engine a few inches
23. Remove engine mount
24. Unbolt the engine mount bracket
25. Remove engine mount bracket
26. Lower engine so as the axle is resting/almost resting on the subframe AND so as the oil pan is NOT supporting the engine! - IMPORTANT! Do not damage the oil pan.
27. Remove timing cover. Be careful of prying it off. You may want to purchase a new timing cover, which will come with a front main seal installed (from GM). Do not remove oil pan
28. Use Jeremy Hodge's timing gear remover tool If gear breaks, use a cutoff wheel to remove the gear from the camshaft….
Take it slow and when you are almost through the metal ring of the gear, pry it apart. DO NOT grind into the camshaft or the thrust plate behind the gear. If you do, you will have to replace the camshaft! A few nicks in the camshaft won't hurt.
29. Clean everything up, straighten any bent parts on the oil pan.
30. Flush oil pan with kerosene, to remove old gear pieces. Drain oil pan.
Do NOT put kerosene into the oil fill at the top of the engine. Just pour kerosene into oil pan at the opening made by the removal of the timing cover
31. Install new timing gear using Jeremy's Tool.
I would recommend you have the aluminum gear honed or buy the fiber gear kit from Jeremy. The Aluminum gear will be difficult to put on, because normally the gears are pressed on, Why not bolted?? I don't know, they just were designed that way. Heat the gear in oil and mount it. Use Jeremy's tool to get the gear started. Use a hammer and block of wood to tap the gear on as you use the gear tool. I.E. turn the gear tool with wrench, tap on the gear, turn the tool, tap the gear… by tapping on the gear you are jarring it so as it will move because of the pressure put on it by the gear tool.
DO NOT tap too hard . If you do, the cam may move and push out the plug in back of the engine. To fix this you need to remove the engine!
There is nothing holding the cam in place. So be careful. Just tap lightly. A honed gear will slide on easier because you have removed some of the metal from the inside of the gear. Jeremy can explain this more.
32. Align timing marks on gears
33. Install front main seal into timing cover (if using old cover)
34. Test fit timing cover, especially the area between the timing cover and the oil pan.
35. Double check timing gears for alignment of marks, IMPORTANT!
36. Put RTV on timing cover, put cover on, do not bolt it yet.
37. Raise engine
38. Put crank pulley on so as to center front main seal on crank pulley, do not install crank bolt.
39. Bolt timing cover in place
40. Remove crank pulley, continue bolting cover on (may need to lower engine)
41. With timing cover in place, raise engine. Install engine mount bracket, bolt into place
42. Install engine mount, bolt into place
43. Lower engine
44. Remove engine lift
45. Install A/C brackets and A/C compressor
46. Install Alternator, connect L-bracket in back (87-88 Fieros)
47. Install Crank Pulley
48. Install metal shield under A/C compressor
49. Install belt
50. Install battery/shield
51. Wait overnight for RTV to cure (or longer)
52. Install new oil filter
53. Install oil
54. Crank engine over and hope all went well.
55. If all works, install splash shield and tire.
56. Test drive
Comments… my aluminum timing gear set made some knocking sounds when I first fired up the engine, but that went away after about a minute. I have driven about 1000 miles on it so far and all is well again, and quiet.
Jason Wenglikowski orJason Wenglikowski ---------------- Saginaw, Michigan

They all should "test". If your temp light doesn't then you need to check the bulb, if that is ok, the wiring is wrong from the factory. how to fix the wiring
The temp guage probably pegs on startup.
Tach and speedo are pulses, temp, fuel and oil are resistance, volts are, well, volts!

FIERO\Gauges\Oil Pressure
I would guess it to be your Oil Pressure Sending unit.
To locate this, find your battery. Then move left of the battery and there is a cylindrical shaped object with wires going into it's top. The wires/plug are kept from being disconnected by a black plastic clip. I would guess the cylindrical shaped unit is about 5 inches in height.
To replace, unclip the black clips, then unscrew the whole unit. It's got a threaded fitting at the bottom of it where the oil squirts up through.
Oil Pressure Sensor Filler Plug
A common problem on A/C equipped V6 Fieros is the oil pressure gauge going berzerk. This is caused by water entering the oil pressure sensor through the vent hole in the plug. Installing a new sensor only cures the problem temporarily, because water will enter the plug again.
To prevent this from occurring again GM recommends installing the oil pressure sensor filler plug P/N 1205 9168 in the hole that you see when you disconnect the plug from the sensor. This part costs less than a dollar.
By the way, this problem does not occur on Fieros without A/C because the sensor is mounted horizontally on these vehicles, so water flows out of the vent hole and does not accumulate and enter the sensor.
85 GT's are also spared because the gauge is much slower than on Fieros with the extra gauge package. So the sensor goes bad on the 85's as well, you just don't notice it.
My Oil Pressure gauge bounces around like crazy, almost all the time. It just goes all over the place for no reason.
It needs a new oil pressure sending unit. Not exactly cheap but it's the only thing that will fix the jumping around. The unit mounts on the engine to the left of the battery box, has a wire connection on the end that doesn't mount on the engine. Relatively easy to remove and install if you're a contortionist!
The oil pressure sending unit is a black cylinder about 2" in diameter and 3" tall. It tapers toward the top. It is located on the passenger's side of the engine behind the EGR solenoid if you are looking at it from the trunk. It reads oil pressure from a tube that runs down to a fitting next to the oil filter, but the sender is up on top. Hope that helps.
-- Yes and no... if you have a v6 without AC, then the oil pressure sender is there... if it is an AC equipped Fiero, then the unit is next to the EGR, above the water pump, across from the battery.
4 cyl... next to the oil filter on either car... except the 88... the unit is in the same location , but the oil filter is in the pan :)

Check the tach filter. It is the round can next to the coil. It has 2 white wires coming out of it. Disconect the plug and put a jumper across the plug terminals.
If the tach works the tach filter is bad. Do this for a test only as it supplies a much higher voltage to the tach.
Rodney Dickman

Months back, someone on the net had a REAL fix for the temperature gauge pegging up when starting the car. It involved rewiring something such that the temperature light in the instrument panel would go on instead of the gauge going crazy. I don't recall if the rewiring modification was for a particular model, engine, or year.
Okay, I didn't post this originally, but the fix is simple enough so that I can tell you from the schematics.
BTW, the Coolant Temp Gauge wiring should be the same on all Fieros.
Here's what you do.
Find the Ignition Switch connector.
Find contact G1.
There should be two light green wires going into it. This should be the coolant gauge temperature input. The other wire goes to the sending unit.
Cut one of the wires right at the connector. Cut the other an inch or so away from the connector.
Connect the two wires and isolate them well. Now the gauge is fixed and won't go crazy when you start your car.
You will now have a 1 inch "pigtail" left on your Ignition Switch Connector.
This wire is grounded when you start your engine, it is the "bulb test".
Crimp a new wire to this pigtail and run it up to your instrument cluster. Find the long, vertical connector on the right hand side of the IP cluster. Pin #13 (dk green wire) is the coolant temp indicator.
Ground with a fused jumper with the ignition in run to verify.
Splice your new "pigtail wire" into this wire. Done!
Now, the coolant light should come on when you start your engine.
Hope this helps,
- Oliver --------- reposted by -Ryan Wright

"Criswell Chevrolet.
Chris Koch has faithfully supplied Fiero owners with Discounted parts and free shipping in the US. Criswell Chevrolet
503 Quince Orchard Road.
Gaithersburg, MD 20878.
Contact either Kevin Burdette, or Bill Gooch.
(888) 466-9101 or (301) 590-1458 for parts. (301) 948-0880 for dealership.
Fax: (301) 670-0936
Notes: Identify yourself as Fiero owner. Then you'll get the great prices and service.
Free domestic shipping via UPS to identified Fiero owners. Criswell feels that they are required to charge the Maryland 5% State Sales Tax. Expect this surcharge. "
Since this is a large operation, Chris asks that you first talk to Kevin Burdette in the parts dept. and identify yourself as a Fiero list member to get the "trade" price on any GM parts.
If he is busy, or if you have any questions, you can ask for Chris.
Parts prices will be the same he was able to offer through Galaxy, and yes, they will UPS at no charge for shipping, BUT, this dealership will charge all purchasers (any state) a 5% Maryland tax.
Apparently there are enforceable intrastate mail order tax laws that Chriswell feels they must abide by to avoid any tax collection problems.
Just received some parts from Galaxy Pontiac. Looks like 35% off and no tax and no shipping. They are still looking to service the Fiero group. They were more than happy to take my order and offered the discount before I even had a chance to ask for it.
I dealt with Steve Barone - Parts Technician. Rodney Dickman 11-10-99

FIERO\GM Parts\Parts
Custom FIERO Turbocharging website at:
Dennis LaGrua's FIERO Super Turbo Center

Beautiful 10 pc. Fiero Wood Dash kits for $89.95
Rodney Dickman Custom Fiero Parts

Rodney Dickman now has rebuild parts for all years of Fiero headlights.

Alan Mooty has the 84-86 gears. 407-275-5040. Days.
About $40 per side. Consider changing to the 87-88 set up if you can find one reasonable.
Alan Mooty
Easy Tech Ind.
8861 Nicklaus Dr.
Orlando, FL 32825
407-275-5040 ---------------------
Or, you can buy a headlight motor-rebuild kit. e-mail Tom at The "TMC" may be lower case; I can't quite remember
I just replaced my headlights with GE's 6054HO High Output headlights....the difference is AMAZING!! They light over twice as far and quite a bit to the sides..and I only paid $16 for the pair at Walmart.
GE claims they will last twice as long with 80% more light on the road.
very good replacements... The headlights are Hella Vision Plus part # 72 207 and were ~$42 each at a "BAP Imports" here in Phoenix.
Okay, as I understand it, there are 4 possible fixes that need to be looked at:
1. The non-closing headlight actuator relay is defective.
2. The non-closing headlight motor is defective.
* *It sounds like you have already tried these, however.**
3. The isolation relay is defective.
4. If the motor you put in was not new or rebuilt, it could have the same gear-clogging dried up grease in it as the one you are replacing.
There are others on this list that have done more extensive troubleshooting.
I believe the Michigan Fiero Club has published an article on the subject.
Check it out at:Headlights

The Fiero OSG has an article also....sketch's Fiero OSG

If one works and the other doesn't, it is more likely the lights than the relay.
Both systems (84-86, 87-88) rely on the pressure against the motor to shut the power down. The 84-86 system has a switch inside the motor assembly that is triggered when the gear moves to the end of it's travel.
The 87-88 system has a controller that senses the rise in power draw when the motor starts to stall.
Having a few gear teeth break is the common culprit on the earlier system. The later system has some pins in the hub of the gear that will slip before the teeth break.
Bill Furhman
The improvement in the 87/88 systems is the method of shutting the motor off when it is done moving. The new system senses when the motor feels resistance to movement and shuts it off. The old system uses a mechanical linkage to sense when the motor hits the end stops. The old one seems to be more prone to going out of adjustment and stressing the parts.
The wiring to the motors is different between the two systems. You need to swap both sides at the same time. The new system has a controller that is also needed along with the two light assemblies.
Steve, you will need the underhood light wiring harness (unplugs just under the brake booster), headlamp relay, radiator fan relay, and both head lamp motors. The motors will bolt to the older frames.
Hardest part is routing the wiring, but it will make a more reliable, smoother, quieter system, that is less expensive to repair.
Parts can come from any 87-88, and make a nice upgrade to the 84-86's.
Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory
A few years back, a few of us local Fiero "nuts" used to drive around with our headlights at half-mast. It gave the Fiero a neat look from the front. I thought everyone knew how to do this.
If you want your headlights up, but with the lights off, push the headlight switch to raise the lights. Very quickly press the off button and then press the parking light switch. It is best to use two hands (I got good with one). The headlight motors don't have time to engage before you can get the parking light switch back on, if you are fast enough.
Now for the half-mast look. Press the headlight switch to raise the lights. Press the off button, but pause briefly before pushing the parking light switch. The headlights will start going back down and will stop when you press the parking light switch. If you time it right (and it may take several tries) both headlight covers will be open about 1 to 2 inches. IMHO, it looks trick this way.
Did this for a couple of years and never lost a headlight motor. Saw it work on an 88 GT, 88 Formula, 87 coupe, and 86 SE. Thought of installing stops with an extension to achieve the same "look" but never did. Reason? DO NOT do this if you plan on high speed driving! At speeds over 100mph (maybe less) the headlight covers will snap up without warning and you will watch it pop off the hood as it sails over the windshield.
It sounds like the motor gears may be stripped out, this lets the motors run without turning the gears. The motor must turn the gears until the arm bottoms out on as stop and puts it in a bind, then the amperage increases until a current sensor swith opens the circuit. Then the system sits waiting for you to hit the headlight switch on again swapping the wires and turning the motors in the opposite direction until the same thing happens. With a stripped gear, the motor can just sit and run, never drawing enough amperage to cause the torque sensor to shut it off with the motors down, or up as the case may be.
Talon Wilson
Stripped gear problems in the Fiero headlight motor are obviously common. However, it is not the only reason that the headlight motor quits working. The passenger side headlight on my '85GT failed to go up last week. After disassembling the motor, I found the gears and green cushion in good condition. The problem was the connection between the thermal overload switch and one of the armature brushes inside the motor. The thermal overload is a clear glass encased bi-metal switch inside the motor housing. When disassembling the motor, inspect the connections from the overload switch to the brass colored metal straps connected to the armature carbon brushes. This brazed or soldered connection can break loose causing the headlight motor to intermittently work. I simply soldered the connection, and the intermittent problem disappeared.
Dick Larimore
"Inspector Dave" says to rotate the stripped gear 180 degrees. I agree. It doesn't always work but it's worth a try. The 'active arc' of the nylon drive gear is about 310 degrees (by my eyeball). When you rotate the gear 180 degrees the chances are you still can't avoid the stripped spot in the gear. If you don't avoid the stripped spot entirely the system still may work if the bad spot is in a location that doesn't get much stress.
If you try rotating the gear and your headlights still 'bob' as mentioned in a previous post, then you have to get new gears. But don't fail to also replace the green 'bumper' ('84-'86 models only) as mentioned by Dave Rodabaugh. If you don't, then in a few months something else will break in your headlight system. Just ask Scott Schmitt in Salt Lake.
Dave Rodabaugh uses RTV sealant to make replacement bumpers. I have used hot melt glue successfully.
(See the "Headlights" tab on my web page at

For you '87-'88 owners, you don't have the 'green bumper' problem, but still may have headlights that don't work. Again, see my web page write-up.
As recently posted to the list, you can get replacement gears from:
Alan Mooty Easy Tech Ind., Inc. 8061 Nicklaus drive Orlando, FL 32825 407-275-5040
45. 00 each including shipping
And you can get a verified headlight motor for $50 or an un-checked headlight motor for $20 from Ed Parks . (These prices are a few months old and may have increased.) Contact Ed at:
Ed Parks
I have used this method of rotating the gears if they are stripped and it works. Maybe not forever, but well worth the removal of the headlight mechanism on both sides.
Some folks think you have to drill out all the rivits and physically remove the gears and rotate them away from the damaged area, but all you have to do is to remove the nut on the arm that attaches to the motor shaft, and remove the arm, turn the knob on the top of the motor 180 degrees and reinstall the arm, and bolt it back together, and they work like new unless they are REAL badly stripped.
I have done this to two of my Fieros with success, and only takes about a half hour. Hope this works for you. Huntsville, Alabama
What is the function of the bumpers?
ENGINEERING EXPLANATION (if you aren't an engineer, scroll down to the "non engineering explanation")
If you are an engineer, the following explanation will be readily understood:
When the headlamp motor is switched on by the isolation relays, the motor turns a worm gear, connected to a steel helical bevel gear, which in turn drives the nylon helical bevel gear. When the headlamp reaches the end of the travel (in either direction), the reactive torque seen in the system increases dramatically (this is expected, as the motor is still running but the linkage is no longer moving). This reactive torque causes an axial force on the motor shaft, pulling it one direction or the other (in the axial direction and depending upon whether the headlamp is being raised or lowered).
The shaft is connected to two sprung "torque switches". When the shaft deflects axially, it forces one of the two contacts in the "torque switches" to make permanent contact. This trips the isolation relay outside of the headlamp motors, cutting the power.
The green plastic bumpers are present to create a "torque ramp" which is a controlled (and probably relatively linear; no testing has been done) increase in the torque at the end of the cycle. This is important because (as one EE on the list pointed out) most motors are high inertia to power devices. In effect, the "torque ramp" allows for the gears to be loaded more slowly than they otherwise would, which trips the torque switches at a predictable point every time, and also provides a bit of compliance for the additional loading which will occur as the motor spools down after the power has been cut.
The green plastic bumpers on the nylon torque gear are necessary to provide a "cushion" at the end of the cycle. This "cushion" allows the motor to shut itself off (they are self-regulating devices) at the same predictable point every time, and keeps the nylon gear from overloading at the end of the cycle.
For some reason, the bumpers degrade into nothingness. We speculate that the bumpers are made of a material from which the petroleum-based ingredient which makes it soft, evaporates. This makes the bumper brittle over time, and it crumbles.
Some will ask, "Why didn't Delco test this device for this?" The answer is, "They can't". I am sure they tested the device over thousands, if not 10s of thousands of cycles, to see if it failed. It is important to note that the degradation of the bumpers is a *time* related phenomenon, which rapid failure testing could not reveal.
You will need:
(1) A new nylon gear
(2) Ball bearing grease
(3) New plastic bumpers
There was a list member who was actually manufacturing replacement gears from nylon. I prototyped them for him, and they work great! I then disassembled a perfectly good headlamp motor (which had perfect plastic bumpers), cast plaster molds of the bumpers, and can now make my own out of clear silicon RTV. The results have been smashing, as the motor works as if it is brand new, and I doubt that the RTV will *ever* degrade. Unfortunately, the gears are no longer being made.
If anyone has questions about this, please email me. I can cast an unlimited number of bumpers, but I will not be able to do so until April (that darn wedding; perfectly good waste of a Saturday! ;-) )
Dave Rodabaugh Paco - Red 1984 Sport Coupe Fiasco - Gold 1986 SE V-6, 4 Speed, Factory Wing, awaiting
I just installed Alan Mooty's brass gears for the 84-86 headlight motors. The gears were of excellent workmanship, the instructions simple to follow. It took about 1 hr per headlight to install. Most of that time was spent cleaning out the old grease and nylon shavings. I also spent the better part of one hour looking for the screws that came with the kit that I had set aside on one of my many cluttered workbenches. I attribute that delay to age. The headlights now work as originally designed, i.e. they go up and down.
During this installation, I decided to check on the headlight voltages.
With the motor off and the battery at 12.5 v, I only measured 10.8 volts at each headlight high beam connector. This was the voltage drop in the wiring!
The lights were wired up with 18 ga wire. Before I rewired the headlights I check the headlight ground to the battery ground. This wa less than 0.1 v, which means the ground was not at fault. So I rewired the headlights using 12 ga wire and set two headlight relays in the headlight bay next to the operating relay.
One relay is lo the other high beam. Then I ran a new 10 Ga wire back to the battery. The existing Fiero headlight wires simply switch a relay. Now when I turn on the headlights I measure 12.3 v at the high beam connector.
The results is nothing short of amazing. The headlights are now extra bright and white instead of yellow. For those of a technical nature, the color temp went from 2700 dK to 3600 dK.
I failed to measure the cp of the original bulbs. However with the new wiring the high beams measured 64000 cp at 1m. With the motor running they should be even brighter with battery voltage at 13. 6.
The bulbs I'm using are Hella H-4 65/55 watt. With the new wiring I'm planning on installing the newer high power H-4s of 130/100 watt rating.
This may be a bit more work than most people will want to tackle. The wiring took the better part of a Saturday, but I'm already rewiring the whole car anyway for a motor swap so it wasn't a real problem. If you didn't want to rewire the whole car, power is available at the fuse block. Just run one extra wire from the block to the relays. BTW, this reduces the amp switching load on the headlight switch considerably, which should extend its life.
Has anyone upgraded their existing sealed-beam (H6054, I think) headlights to newer composite beam technology? I found two sets of Hella lights that will fit the OEM Fiero headlight slots, spaces, or whatever you call that hole when you remove the sealed-beam light bulb.
Hella model #72206 (European version) 5¼" x 7¼" Rectangular H4 For 2 headlamp systems equipped with a 60/55W H4 bulb. NOT DOT approved for US street use. I found these for $46 per set (both sides).
Hella model #72207 (US version) 5¼" x 7¼" rectangular HB2 Headlamp for two headlamp systems equipped with a 60/55W bulb. SAE/DOT approved for US street use. I found these for $44 per set (both sides).
I was told by the salesman that the 72206 is the European model that is not DOT "approved" for use in the US, but that he sells more of these for use in the US than the 72207. He said that the 72206 puts more light on the road and less on the sides and up in the air (that the DOT law requires). Something about European signs are self illuminated or much more reflective than those in the US and therefore, their headlights put more lighting on the road where it is needed.
The DOT requires some spread to illuminate roadside signs that may not be reflective enough. He told me that the 72206 has a much tighter focused low beam and was less offensive to oncoming vehicles than the 72207. The 72206 also has a sharper high beam since it focuses more light on the road with less scatter.
He suggested the 72206 over the 72207 and said that I would not have any inspection problems (even though SC no longer has vehicle inspections). He said that both provide about 50% more light on low beam and 25% more light on high beam than the H6054. He promised that this would be the single best investment for improving forward lighting; even better than adding auxillary lights. For the money, it sounds like a great improvement!
Is the DOT approval really an issue? Are there any states that check to make sure your headlights are correct? I was advised against the Blue Streak that the Fiero Store sells because they make it harder to see in inclement weather than the stock headlights. They aren't blue lights like the fake HID (NOTE: found *real* HID lights from PIAA for less than $1000, including transformer), so they shouldn't attract any attention from local law enforcement, or so he tells me. Does anyone have experience with of these? Has anyone installed either of these (72206 or 72207) in their Fiero? I'm very interested in hearing your comments.
Thanks in advance! Wallace Krebs (Greenville, SC - ICQ: 25751306)
Fiero Portal ( -soon! NIFE Member (
FOR Club (
When the car ignition (IGN) is turned on, voltage is applied to the turn signal filament through the normally closed pair of relay contacts (click on the Schematic below). This is the normal condition when the car is running. When the driver puts on a turn signal, current flows into the base of Q1, which energizes the relay. The N.O. pair of contacts are made, and the lamp then becomes part of the flashing circuit, as was intended by the automobile manufacturer.
As the lamp flashes, the circuit is momentarily powered on and off through the flashing module. In order to keep the relay on during the turn signal operation, a delay is required to keep current flowing into the base of Q1. This is accomplished with capacitor C1, which was selected to provide a two second dwell period.
After the turn is complete and the turn signal stalk returns home, current is no longer supplied to the base of Q1. After the two second dwell period, Q1 turns off which interupts the current flow to the relay. The relay turns off and the turn signal lamp returns to DRL mode.
When the parking lights are turned on, the relay is energized making the N.O. contacts. This disconnects the turn signal lamp from +12 volts and connects it to the flashing circuit so that it functions normally.
This circuit operates one turn signal, so two circuits must be constructed. I chose to make two separate units rather than one because three out of the four connections to the car can be made right at the turn signal lamp. I made two units and placed one on each side of the car. I suppose you could put two circuits together on one PC board and mount the unit under the dash, but I prefer to work with my head above my feet, so I mounted them under the hood of the car, rather than under the dash.
Since the turn signal filament draws about 2 amps, select a relay that will handle 5 amps or more. Radio Shack 275-248 is a PC mount relay that will handle 10 amps. If that relay is out of stock, 275-249 will work also, but its rating is only 5 amps per contact set. Double up the contacts if you use this one.
Lamp Life Typical turn signal lamps include 1157, 2057 or 3157, and have an average life of 1200 hours for the turn signal filament. If your round trip drive to work is two hours, you could expect the lamps to last 600 days, or about 3 years. This is probably much less than they would last being used simply as turn signals, but the added safely afforded is, in my opinion, worth the couple extra bucks it'll take to replace them more often.
another way---
Yes, I've done this on my 88 Fiero about 4 months ago. It looks GREAT. I took the time and did it right so it looks factory. I rewired it so that the ignition runs the blinker lights.(brighter ones). The way its wired is simple. You need 2 automotive relays (sold at wal-mart) and some wire to run to the ignition. Run the hot wire to the drivers side relay and the blue wire that's hooked to the light socket so that when the relay is activated the power is cut to the blue wire. then hook the blue wire from the harness to the relay and the brown wire from the socket so when power is put to it it will click the relay and light the dim light. just do the same on the other side. Make sure you tape the brown wire from the harness so it won't short out on anything. Good Luck.

FIERO\Heat and Air
remove the passenger side speaker remove the convience center (blue box is plugged into it), which is next to the heater core cover.
Remove subwoofer if equipped (I believe) remove four screws that hold heater core cover inplace remove screws and bands that hold heater core inplace change core assemble in reverse order.
-- Guy, I'm guessing your car is air conditioned, whereas the other guy's car is not.
There was some discussion about this a while back, and it appears that the non A/C cars heater cores are removed from the front, under the hood, where the A/C cars come out from under the dash inside the car.
Mike Mohr Fremont, Nebraska
when recharging a Fiero with R-134 I use two full 12 oz cans. This is a little low, but gives colder air. Evaporator icing is possible in cool weather (like when you are running the defroster), but not in the summer.
The general rule is charge R-134 to 80% of the R-12 capacity, which would be around 32 oz. on the Fiero. As I said, 24 oz. works very well and may be a better charge due to lower pressures and less stress on the R-12 compresor.
Being a tight wad and knowing two cans of R-134 works fine in a completely vacuumed down system, I have not coughed up the bucks for a set of R-134 gauges and hoses. Therefore, I do not know what the actual pressures may be at a given temperature.
Randy Agee
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If you have time on your hands, go to a junkyard & look for a Citation, Phoenix, or Celebrity/Century/6000/Ciera. These mats follow the Fiero floor contour perfectly..just use the left one on the right and vice versa. Plus, they have the GM emblem embossed on them so it looks factory.
I have spent quite a lot of time recently teaching myself how to rebond the interior trim pieces. I have amassed a large collection of c-clamps, various flat bars and other exotic clamping devices to do the job. With all this tooling I can tell you that the one single MOST IMPORTANT thing you have to do, is clean both sides of the surfaces to be bonded, with toluene. This is available at any hardware store.
The adhesive is 3M Plastic Emblem & Trim Adhesive from Auto Zone.
If there is any old foam present at the interface or joint, remove it with a scraper. I have had good luck using dental picks that are available from most small tool supply houses and lots of mail order catalogs today.
Don't get in a hurry. Repeat...don't get in a hurry. You don't want to do it twice. Been there, done that. Once you get the surfaces clean, do a test set up. Put the pieces together, with your clamps or other tooling, exactly like you will want them assembled. The adhesive sets up pretty quickly, but you do have time to adjust things a bit.
Once you know exactly how you're going to assemble and clamp things, go over the surfaces to be glued again with a a toluene wipe on a rag or paper towel. The toluene will attack the vinyl, so be careful not to slop it around. It needs to attack the vinyl, but not too agressively. Toluene will melt the plastic part too, so just use it as a wipe. It more or less tackifies the mating surfaces, which is what you want. That's what makes the glue work.
Now, apply the adhesive to both mating surfaces and spread it around evenly. Bring the mating surfaces together and clamp. Come back tomorrow, to a just-like-new part.
If you get too much "squeeze out" when you tigthen the clamps, you can use a little toluene on a rag to wipe it off. Again, not too much because if you use too much it will soften the joint you just made.
Let me know if you have any problems with this method.
If anyone would like to discuss the materials, fixtures or procedures with me, feel free to call. I'm usually around most of the time at (504) 882-3000 Ask for Dave.
If you want me to do it, that can be arranged too.
How do I remove the interior trim piece that runs from the windshield up to the roof, kinda holds the edges of headliner up. the part you mentioned is held in place by a clip (female) mounted to the spaceframe and a flat piece of plastic (male) protruding from the trim piece. if I remember correctly, there are three such fasteners (from the rear to the front) plus one similar to the type which holds the door panel to the door (frontmost fastener). the trim will have to be pried diagonally toward the center console; pry slightly and peek behind it using a flashlight to be sure your putting pressure in the right place. -- Push it out with a putty knife.
Push from outside the window in towards the interior of the car.. If you carefully pull the trim piece down a little, you might be able to see the tabs that hold the trim piece on Just take it slow, and you shouldn't have any problems. Good luck.
I have a radio out of a 98 Grand Prix and it fits perfect... No cassette, just the CD player and EQ.
I started with the torn console for practice. I further separated the rubber/foam stuff away from the rigid plastic frame (which is kind of fragile by the way). Then I tried a little super glue. It seemed to work, so I used a little more. So the concept here is a "ton" of super glue.
Because I wanted perfect results, the "good" console took more time. I did the same thing, but had to plan how I was going to re-stretch the rubber/foam stuff. Because it had separated and retracted, it did not exactly fit the rigid plastic frame. So I used a ton of superglue which gave me a few more seconds of working time. Then I aggressively pulled the "lip" of the rubber/foam stuff back over the rigid plastic. I held it there for a while, and then tried to work the cramps out of my hands. It worked great.
The console piece around the shifter lever was more difficult, but the same principle applied.
The hard plastic top is "plastic welded" to the rigid plastic frame of this piece. Before fixing the separated rubber, I had to break all the "welds" first.
The rubber/foam stuff on this piece was much more difficult to handle. I wanted to make sure that it was glued evenly and all the way down. I had to break the glue away a couple of times because I had pulled too hard in an area. But I got it. It has lasted a year without even a hint of separating.
I used two tons of glue on that one. The hard plastic top still had some of these little stems used for "welding" sticking out the back. When they made the parts, the stems would stick through a mating hole of another part. Then they would mash the stem with a hot iron, melting it into the surrounding area. I just glued them.
I separated the vinyl from the form and cleaned off the torn foam padding.
I then coated both sides, (foam and the plastic it connects to) with contact cement. You must let the cement dry for at least 10 to 15 minutes.
When both sides are almost dry, (still slightly tacky) press them together firmly.
Try to fit everything back into its original position. Then clamp or press them together using whatever means available.
I let mine sit overnight even though the instructions said that it would cure in three hours.
vinyl dash repair-
Find an auto paint supply that sells SEM products.
They have the best plastic dye and the largest selection of colors. Any auto paint supply can also custom mix a color for you, but you will need an airbrush or spray gun to apply the paint. Eastwood mail orders SEM stuff, so you might check out their web site. Don't remember the complete URL.
One tip, though. Clean the vinyl surface well with lacquer thinner on a lint free cloth first, then wipe with a tack rag.
No, the directions do not tell you to do this. Yes, it will soften the plastic.
But, that is what you want when painting vinyl and the job will turn out better. Been doing this since the late 60's, so I know it works.
Randy Agee The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA
You've got the right stuff, you also need 'Vinyl prep' a clear liquid, you wash down the area with this vinyl prep stuff first. Likely you can ask the store you found the plasticote paint at for the vinyl prep stuff.
If your unsure about the colour remove the plug at the top of the arm rest to bring into the store to compare.
But having recently gone into the auto parts store myself, I think that was the colour name. I have used it in the past and it's great stuff. But just like every other type of painting, the better the prep the better the finished product.
It's really easy to do, just make sure you use the vinyl prep, to clean away any silicones and open up the poors of the vinyl so the paint will stick better and last longer.
Regards, Sean 86 GT, Tan Interior
The process of changing my 87 dark grey trim to jet black was a rather simple but time consuming task.
The first step was to remove every single trim peice except for the dash. At first I only painted my white center console black, just to see if black suited me :) And suit me it does!
I used Mar-Hyde Vinyl Colour- jet black for all the vinyl trim peices, including the rear speaker covers.
For the headliner, rear carpet peice (behind seats) and front speaker covers I used Mar-Hyde Fabric Colour- black for carpret and upholstery.
Before painting anything I washed it well with soap and water, then sprayed it with MotoMaster Automotive Cleaner-- DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP! Without it the dye/paint just peals right off.
Cost of paint was about 40 dollars 3 cans of vinyl stuff and 2 of fabric, only one of cleaner.
The door panels are from an 84 SE, as they have vinyl map pockets instead of my lovely cloth, which I just couldnt bare to paint.
Cost for these was 30 bucks from the local wrecker Everything received at least 2 coats of paint, the carpet and healiner got about 5 or more coats.
Things are very straight forward I recomend pulling both seats out. Pulling a Fiero interior apart is incredibly simple, I didnt need any instructions. Just find the screws and everything just falls out.
The paint sticks incredibly well and its hard to tell it has even been painted at all. Now I just need my black leather seats...
dye seat belts-
I have dyed quite a bit of nylon webbing for parachutes, and here is what has to be done:
Use RIT dye either in a large pot that will completely submerse the nylon or in a washing machine (can be cleaned out by running two empty hot loads with about two cups of bleach and full detergent) If you do not remove the seat belt from the reel, clamp it at full extension.
Use two packets of BLACK and one packet of Dark Red or Red (it brings the color to a better base for the black. Trust me, it is what you need to get a deep black)
Follow the instructions exactly on the RIT dye pack. The rinsing instructions are critical.
This method produces a deep color, little change in flexibility and no perceptable change in strength (depending on the nylon, sometimes none) and it does not rub off. Hope it helps.
- Tom 87 Fiero GT 5sp Vancouver, WA
I have spent quite a lot of time recently teaching myself how to rebond the interior trim pieces.
I have amassed a large collection of c-clamps, various flat bars and other exotic clamping devices to do the job.
With all this tooling I can tell you that the one single MOST IMPORTANT thing you have to do, is clean both sides of the surfaces to be bonded, with toluene.
This is available at any hardware store. The adhesive is 3M Plastic Emblem & Trim Adhesive from Auto Zone.
If there is any old foam present at the interface or joint, remove it with a scraper. I have had good luck using dental picks that are available from most small tool supply houses and lots of mail order catalogs today.
Don't get in a hurry. Repeat...don't get in a hurry.
You don't want to do it twice. Been there, done that.
Once you get the surfaces clean, do a test set up. Put the pieces together, with your clamps or other tooling, exactly like you will want them assembled.
The adhesive sets up pretty quickly, but you do have time to adjust things a bit.
Once you know exactly how you're going to assemble and clamp things, go over the surfaces to be glued again with a a toluene wipe on a rag or paper towel.
The toluene will attack the vinyl, so be careful not to slop it around.
It needs to attack the vinyl, but not too agressively.
Toluene will melt the plastic part too, so just use it as a wipe. It more or less tackifies the mating surfaces, which is what you want.
That's what makes the glue work.
Now, apply the adhesive to both mating surfaces and spread it around evenly. Bring the mating surfaces together and clamp.
Come back tomorrow, to a just-like-new part.
If you get too much "squeeze out" when you tigthen the clamps, you can use a little toluene on a rag to wipe it off. Again, not too much because if you use too much it will soften the joint you just made.
Let me know if you have any problems with this method. If anyone would like to discuss the materials, fixtures or procedures with me, feel free to call. I'm usually around most of the time at (504) 882-3000 Ask for Dave. If you want me to do it, that can be arranged too.

Dash Lights------------
I pulled the heat sink and cleaned it all up, but did not put the thermal grease back on just to be sure this was problem. I still have no dash lights... What now? Replace the transistor? I checked all of the fuses.
To the right of the steering column you will find a transistor on a brown plastic piece. Try changing this. (This transistor controls the dimming of the lights, and is prone to burning out)
Do you have voltage to the transistor (brown white)? Do you have voltage to the control line of the transistor (green/white wire)? If you jumper 12 volts to the output line (dark green), do the lights go on?

FIERO\Interior\Headliner Sunroof
how to quiet the rattles in the sunroof

could be the plastic coating on the front hinges worn off. Still available new or heat shrink or wrap them. Also could be latch loose on mounting studs, cover loose, or latch just too worn on pivot pins. Same applies as front hinges. If you replace, get new outer nuts. The have a soft seal that will eliminate 95% of sunroof leaks.

Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory

Having done several headliner replacements on Fieros I would like to briefly outline the proper procedure. I do not know of any way to repair a sagging headliner. Usually by the time they sag the material is also faded ripped or crumbling. I would not try a band-aid fix. My technique involves removing the headliner, stripping off the old foam backed fabric, gluing on new fabric and putting the finished headliner back in place. To the best of my memory here are the steps:

1. Remove the sunvisors and overhead interior light console.

2. Remove the seat belt guide retaining bolt ( you'll need a male torx socket)

3. Remove the interior roof trim panels,( with care I might add). These are the trim pieces which run at the sides of the headliner and extend to the windshield. They are held by clips.

4. Remove or at least pull the rear side interior panels away from the headliner.

5. If your car has a sunroof only--remove the rubber strip that holds the edge of the headliner fabric around the sunroof cutout.

5. .GENTLY remove the headliner by dropping it down SLOWLY. Some older Fieros also had two clips holding the rear end of the headliner in place and some did not, so unhook the headliner from these clips if necessary. Removing the old headliner is best done with two people. Most old headliners are very brittle and break easily. If you car has a sun roof I would say that your chances of removing the headliner alone without breaking it are about 50%.

6. After the headliner is out, pull away the old foam backed material from the figerglas backing board

7. Carefully scrape away and remove all of the old loose foam from the backing board.

8. Paint the backing board with two coats of fiberglas resin and let it dry for 24 hours ( This step will is not absolutely necessary but it will restore the strength of an old brittle headliner and lessen the chance of it breaking during the reinstallation process..

9. Use medium gray foam backed headliner material to recover the headliner. I got a yard of this material ( 54" W) from JC Whitney for about $15.00

10. Following the instructions on the label, apply two coats of 3M SUPER high strength trim adhesive ( the regular 3M trim adhesive won't hold) to the headliner board and the inside of the headliner material. Postion, stretch and press headliner material to the headliner board. Wait about an hour for the glue to fully set.

11. If you have a sunroof cut the sunroof hole leaving an additional 3"-4" material all around the edge of the cutout.This material will later be tucked into a groove around the sunroof hole. Cut the headliner material around both sunvisor holes and the overhead light console.

12. Reinstall headliner, sunvisors, light console, and if you have a sunroof, tuck the extra headliner material around the sunroof hole into the groove there. Push the rubber trim that hold the headliner around the sunroof hole back into the channel, replace the trim pieces and the seat belt retaining bolt. Two people will make this step much easier

13. Park your car where you can safely keep the windows open for a day to allow the toxic fumes from the fiberglas resin and the glue to escape while the compounds cure. Reupholstering the headliner is not a difficult job for the home mechanic as long as you take your time, measure correctly and follow the proper procedure in proper trim removal Hope this info helps.


J. C. Whitney (yes) has matching headliner material by the yard. Order one yard of Foam-backed Nylon Tricot Material, catalog number 78CR5664NF, for $13.95. The Med. Gray is a PERFECT match for the Fiero gray.

Headliner Removal and Installation Removal - all models without sunroof (AD3) I just did this on my '87 coupe. Removing the headliner is a real pain the first time you do it, but it's pretty easy if you do it again.

First, remove the seatbelt loops (need a Torx driver...don't remember the size, but fairly large), follwed by the coathangers, brake light cover [86-88 only], visors, and dome light (the dome light has two screws above the lenses). Take out the screws holding the rear door frame moldings, and pull the moldings out a few inches. Use a flat screwdriver to gently work the upper door frame moldings loose. Once all of this is removed, the headliner comes right out. From: Gordon Rogers

Repair The biggest problem (as I see it) when replacing the Fiero headliner is the glue. The aerosol cans you buy at an autoparts store, like 3M General Purpose Spray Adhesive WILL NOT WORK SATISFACTORLY.

I have replaced a pile of headliners on GM cars and trucks. I KNOW the proceedure following works from personal experience.

J. C. Whitney (yes) has matching headliner material by the yard. Order one yard of Foam-backed Nylon Tricot Material, catalog number 78CR5664NF, for $13.95. The Med. Gray is a PERFECT match for the Fiero gray. I never bought the Buckskin Tan and cannot comment on the closeness of that color to those interiors. An interesting note, while looking around Richmond, I could not find the right color of gray for the 87 SC in local shops and their price of material was much higher than Whitney, even with shipping. I found this strange, because Richmond is a big city. so, I took a chance on Whitney's material and was pleasantly surprised to find the color correct! Anyway, DO NOT BUY JCW's REPLACEMENT HEADLINER KIT. It is a waste of money and will NOT give you O.E.M. type look. I ordered one of their kits for an Oldsmobile Firenza we put a sunroof in - we used it, but it was no where near original looking.

v This part is extremely important!!!!! Find a friendly upholstery shop, take a empty CLEAN pint or quart can, and buy some of the adhesive they use. They buy it in 5 gallon cans, which is why you need the clean container.


If you do not have a friendly upholstery shop, buy 3M contact adhesive for FORMICA COUNTERTOPS from a hardware or building supply store. This is an acceptable substitute for upholstery glue. Buy the old smelly, highly flammable type - not the new latex type.

v Optional From a marine supply store, or perhaps WalMart, buy a cheap 2" paint brush and quart of polyester fiberglass resin. Working OUTSIDE on a warm day (70 F or above) COMPLETELY saturate the headliner board with the resin. Let cure overnight. Oh yea, get some rubber gloves too and be prepared to smell the polyester for several days in your car. DO NOT leave the car in the hot sun with the windows rolled up for at least a week. Failure to follow this advise will result in a very offensive, long lasting odor in the car.

Tape the headliner material to a flat, clean surface with the foam side UP. Using a small, close nap paint roller (4" width) roll adhesive on the fiderboard shell for the headliner and on the foam side of the headliner material. (A brush will not work and spray guns are almost impossible to clean). Let it dry completely and carefully apply the material to the shell. Apply adhesive to the top (roof) side of the shell along the edge for about 2" as well.

Trim excess material, leaving an inch of material all of the way around the headliner shell. Fold the excess over onto the top of shell to cover the edges.

If you have a sunroof, cut out the center opening leaving 4" of material all around. Prepunch and mark location of coat hooks and sunvisor mounts.

CAREFULLY Reinstall. This is best done with two people.

If you have a sunroof, use an old credit card or "bondo spatula" to press material into groove all the way around, replace plastic trim and carefully trim away excess with a single edge razor blade.

Take the excess material to your "friendly uphlostery shop", along with your sun visors, so they may recover them as well. I paid $10 each for this the first few times, the last time it was $15 a pair.

From: Randy Agee FieroZone

Find an auto paint supply that sells SEM products. They have the best plastic dye and the largest selection of colors. Any auto paint supply can also custom mix a color for you, but you will need an airbrush or spray gun to apply the paint. Eastwood mail orders SEM stuff, so you might check out their web site. Don't remember the complete URL. One tip, though. Clean the vinyl surface well with lacquer thinner on a lint free cloth first, then wipe with a tack rag. No, the directions do not tell you to do this. Yes, it will soften the plastic. But, that is what you want when painting vinyl and the job will turn out better. Been doing this since the late 60's, so I know it works.

Randy Agee The Fiero Ranch Mechanicsville, VA
plasticote You've got the right stuff, you also need 'Vinyl prep' a clear liquid, you wash down the area with this vinyl prep stuff first. Likely you can ask the store you found the plasticote paint at for the vinyl prep stuff.

v If your unsure about the colour remove the plug at the top of the arm rest to bring into the store to compare.

But having recently gone into the auto parts store myself, I think that was the colour name. I have used it in the past and it's great stuff. But just like every other type of painting, the better the prep the better the finished product.

It's really easy to do, just make sure you use the vinyl prep, to clean away any silicones and open up the poors of the vinyl so the paint will stick better and last longer. Regards, Sean 86 GT, Tan Interior

The process of changing my 87 dark grey trim to jet black was a rather simple but time consuming task. The first step was to remove every single trim peice except for the dash. At first I only painted my white center console black, just to see if black suited me :) And suit me it does!

I used Mar-Hyde Vinyl Colour- jet black for all the vinyl trim peices, including the rear speaker covers. For the headliner, rear carpet peice (behind seats) and front speaker covers I used Mar-Hyde Fabric Colour- black for carpret and upholstery. Before painting anything I washed it well with soap and water, then sprayed it with MotoMaster Automotive Cleaner-

DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP! Without it the dye/paint just peals right off. Cost of paint was about 40 dollars 3 cans of vinyl stuff and 2 of fabric, only one of cleaner. The door panels are from an 84 SE, as they have vinyl map pockets instead of my lovely cloth, which I just couldnt bare to paint. Cost for these was 30 bucks from the local wrecker Everything received at least 2 coats of paint, the carpet and healiner got about 5 or more coats. Things are very straight forward I recomend pulling both seats out. Pulling a Fiero interior apart is incredibly simple, I didnt need any instructions. Just find the screws and everything just falls out. The paint sticks incredibly well and its hard to tell it has even been painted at all. Now I just need my black leather seats...

dye seat belts-
I have dyed quite a bit of nylon webbing for parachutes, and here is what has to be done: Use RIT dye either in a large pot that will completely submerse the nylon or in a washing machine (can be cleaned out by running two empty hot loads with about two cups of bleach and full detergent) If you do not remove the seat belt from the reel, clamp it at full extension.

Use two packets of BLACK and one packet of Dark Red or Red (it brings the color to a better base for the black. Trust me, it is what you need to get a deep black)

Follow the instructions exactly on the RIT dye pack. The rinsing instructions are critical.

This method produces a deep color, little change in flexibility and no perceptable change in strength (depending on the nylon, sometimes none) and it does not rub off. Hope it helps.

- Tom 87 Fiero GT 5sp Vancouver, WA ----------------

I have spent quite a lot of time recently teaching myself how to rebond the interior trim pieces. I have amassed a large collection of c-clamps, various flat bars and other exotic clamping devices to do the job. With all this tooling I can tell you that the one single MOST IMPORTANT thing you have to do, is clean both sides of the surfaces to be bonded, with toluene. This is available at any hardware store. The adhesive is 3M Plastic Emblem & Trim Adhesive from Auto Zone.

If there is any old foam present at the interface or joint, remove it with a scraper. I have had good luck using dental picks that are available from most small tool supply houses and lots of mail order catalogs today.

Don't get in a hurry. Repeat...don't get in a hurry. You don't want to do it twice. Been there, done that. Once you get the surfaces clean, do a test set up. Put the pieces together, with your clamps or other tooling, exactly like you will want them assembled. The adhesive sets up pretty quickly, but you do have time to adjust things a bit.

Once you know exactly how you're going to assemble and clamp things, go over the surfaces to be glued again with a a toluene wipe on a rag or paper towel. The toluene will attack the vinyl, so be careful not to slop it around. It needs to attack the vinyl, but not too agressively. Toluene will melt the plastic part too, so just use it as a wipe. It more or less tackifies the mating surfaces, which is what you want. That's what makes the glue work.

Now, apply the adhesive to both mating surfaces and spread it around evenly. Bring the mating surfaces together and clamp. Come back tomorrow, to a just-like-new part.

If you get too much "squeeze out" when you tigthen the clamps, you can use a little toluene on a rag to wipe it off. Again, not too much because if you use too much it will soften the joint you just made.

Let me know if you have any problems with this method. If anyone would like to discuss the materials, fixtures or procedures with me, feel free to call. I'm usually around most of the time at (504) 882-3000 Ask for Dave. If you want me to do it, that can be arranged too.

I started with the torn console for practice. I further separated the rubber/foam stuff away from the rigid plastic frame (which is kind of fragile by the way). Then I tried a little super glue. It seemed to work, so I used a little more. So the concept here is a "ton" of super glue.
Because I wanted perfect results, the "good" console took more time. I did the same thing, but had to plan how I was going to re-stretch the rubber/foam stuff. Because it had separated and retracted, it did not exactly fit the rigid plastic frame. So I used a ton of superglue which gave me a few more seconds of working time. Then I aggressively pulled the "lip" of the rubber/foam stuff back over the rigid plastic. I held it there for a while, and then tried to work the cramps out of my hands. It worked great.
The console piece around the shifter lever was more difficult, but the same principle applied. The hard plastic top is "plastic welded" to the rigid plastic frame of this piece. Before fixing the separated rubber, I had to break all the "welds" first. The rubber/foam stuff on this piece was much more difficult to handle. I wanted to make sure that it was glued evenly and all the way down. I had to break the glue away a couple of times because I had pulled too hard in an area. But I got it. It has lasted a year without even a hint of separating. I used two tons of glue on that one. The hard plastic top still had some of these little stems used for "welding" sticking out the back. When they made the parts, the stems would stick through a mating hole of another part. Then they would mash the stem with a hot iron, melting it into the surrounding area. I just glued them. --------
I separated the vinyl from the form and cleaned off the torn foam padding. I then coated both sides, (foam and the plastic it connects to) with contact cement. You must let the cement dry for at least 10 to 15 minutes. When both sides are almost dry, (still slightly tacky) press them together firmly. Try to fit everything back into its original position. Then clamp or press them together using whatever means available. I let mine sit overnight even though the instructions said that it would cure in three hours.
vinyl dash repair- ----------------

FIERO\Interior\Steering Column
Besides regular mechanics tools (including some Torx Sockets) you will need a steering wheel puller (c.$5-8), a lock-ring puller ($15-20), and a pivot-pin puller(c.$20). I have found the first two tools at AutoZone; the third you will probably have to chase down the tool truck. Basically, there are four bolts inside the column that will eventually work their way loose over time, thus giving you the wobble. Nothing is really broken in your column, just loose.
Tools you will need besides a steering wheel puller.. Lock-ring's b/w 15-20 bucks at Autozone, Napa, etc.
Pivot pin 20 bucks off the tool truck..
- or- as suggested by another listee... if you have some old machine screws, you can use these with a washer and an old socket to pull the two pins out of each side of the column instead of the pin puller.
Oh, a set of small Torx sockets will help.
I am changing out a steering column for a fellow list member and I can't for the life of me figure out how to route the cruise control wire back through the column. Is there an easy trick to this?? Any help would be appreciated.
This is one of the most difficult things to do. If you were simply replacing the old switch, it would be simple because at the plug end there's a tiny hole in the circuit board for you to tie a piece of mechanic's wire onto. You would then simply pull the harness and wire up from the base of the column and out the hole, undo the mechanic's wire and fasten it onto the new harness, then pull the wire back through the column - however, I suspect that this is not the case as you have stated that you are swapping columns.
Herein lies the problem. It's easier to thread the mechanic's wire from the top down (steering wheel end down) and then hook the harness for the switch and continue on a downward motion. You would have to remove the steering wheel and lock plate assembly to even see where to route the wire. While you're there, pull the turn signal switch and make it easier on yourself. (It's only a few extra screws .. ) Hope this helps!
Eric '88 Yellow Formula '86 Pro-street GT BoomTastic.Com

22P Parts Book
TAUR This is the paper copy that dealers use to order parts with.
It has a breakdown of what parts were used on each year and has great drawings with all the parts labeled. It costs $10 (including shipping and handling) from: Tuar Company (810 239-5552)
GM SPO Publications Processing Center
P. O. Box 354
Flint, MI 48501
They do not take credit card or COD orders. You need to send them a check.
Tuar Publishing 2716 Lippincott St. Flint, MI 48507
------------------- Second Edition Spotter's Guide is still available for $4.00 plus $1.00 shipping (US single copy cost) payable to the author and sent to:
Fiero Spotter's Guide
5474 S.R. 19
Galion, Ohio 44833


For anyone who wants a 180 degree thermostat, order Stant part # 18313.
Fan relays on 84's are different then all other years. The 85-86 relays are for those 2 years only, and the 87-88 relays are also just for those two years.
Ed Parks , ------------------ ----------------

My fan also had a problem of not coming on with the a/c. I found it was a burnt cuircut in the a/c control head. I replaced it for $10 and now all is fine.


FIERO\Radiator\Fill Process
Coolant Empty, Flush, Fill Process ----------------------

Remove the radiator cap.

Remove the thermostat cap.

Fill the *engine* block up with coolant until it runs out the radiator.

Cap the radiator.

Continue filling until you are full.

Put the thermostat cap back on and start the car. Let it run for 30 seconds.

Take the thermostat cap off and refill.

Repeat last 2 steps 5 times.


Your 86 2.5 has 0 tolerance for overheating (combustion chamber design). Same for 84-85. FIRST time is almost always a cracked head. At 240 degrees, shut the engine off and walk, even if only 1 block away.

Proper filling takes time even though there are several ways to eliminate captured air pockets from an empty or depleted coolant system.

Remove both radiator cap, thermostat housing cap, and thermostat.

Fill until coolant comes out of radiator.

Replace that cap. Continue to fill from rear (slowly), until it appears full........ Cap, without thermostat, start and run engine about 3-4 min. Remove rear cap, and again fill until it appears full.

Replace thermostat and cap, run engine to operating temp. Shut off for about 5 minutes.

Observe overflow tank and fill to hot level.

After engine is completely cooled (next morning?), observe overflow tank and fill to cold level. Repeat observations for the next couple of days. (this is simplest)

Alternative #1. Do first part above. then remove "purge plug" on return coolant line in front of right rear wheel, (this is not recommended since plug might rip out of pipe) until steady stream of coolant is running. Replace plug, and slowly fill at rear. Do the rest of above.

Alternative #2. Do first part above, then remove the gauge sensor from head and continue to fill until coolant runs out there. Replace sensor using correct sensor proof sealant. Replace thermostat, cap, and run engine to operatiing temp. Observe overflow tank as above.

Remember that the head of the engine is above the height of the radiator, and that water does not flow uphill. Even if the radiator is lifted above the head, air has to be purged from the head and the return pipe.

Due to the rear placement of our engines (which we all enjoy), the seperation of engine and radiator by a longer then 6 ft pipe, makes filling more difficult then a Grand Am with the same engine.

Alternative #2 is suggested by most engine remanufacturers.

Ed Parks
Raise rear of car.
Remove radiator cap.
remove thermostat cap.
remove thermostat.
fill from thermostat opening until coolant runs out of radiator.
install radiator cap.
fill coolant reservoir to about midway.
fill from thermostat opening until coolant reaches top.
install thermostat cap (without thermostat).
run car for 2 minutes.
remove thermostat cap, top off fluid as needed.
install thermostat and thermostat cap.
run car until it reaches operating temp (when the hose on the top of the radiator gets warm, you're there).
let cool completely.
check coolant level at thermostat.
Mark - Pensacola, FL

FIERO\Radiator\Heater Core

The orange constant hot wire that you tapped into is actually a low amperage draw wire (If I remember right...). It is meant for clock memory, preset memory, ect.
If my memory serves me right, the yellow wire is the switched hot wire from the ignition, and is the only wire that will carry enough current to run things properly. If I am not quite correct, let me know and I will actually go through the labor of digging out a book.
The thing I like about my Pioneer (DEH-400) is that it is 1.5 din AND the display is the same color as the Fiero gauges! That red/orange color. Perfect at night.
Eric 88 Formula
I have a radio out of a 98 Grand Prix and it fits perfect... No cassette, just the CD player and EQ.

Check out: they can re-cone they offer 4", 5", 6", etc.... woofers. They "look" just like the fiero sub. I haven't bought one, but when some cash pops up I may see if they are a replacement. Front speakers in the dash are 4"x10". Rear sail panel speakers are 4"x6". 4X6 are in the back pillars behind the seats. And 3 1/2" speakers are in the headrest. You need to take the seat cover off to reach these.
Sub Woofer Installation
Fiero OSG and at: Fiero.Net

Does anyone know the specs on the factory headrest speakers? RMS power rating? 4 or 8 ohms, etc?
8 ohms Not sure of the power rating. From the magnet assembly, I would guess 20-40 watts. Remember, they are only a few inches from your ears and won't need much power to be loud.
Firebirds of the same years as the Fiero (and probably later) had THE SAME 5 1/4' sub in the PREMIMUM systems. Instead of the 6X9's in the rear sails they had the 5.25" sub and some other speaker. Check the junkyards and you may find a winner.
These systems ALSO use the SAME AMPS to run these subs. Presumably the slider is in there also and useable.
MCM Electronics 1-800-543-4330 part #55-1205 5.25 poly treated paper woofer $9.15 I think this is the beast.
Pioneer makes a good 3 way 4x10 that is made to fit. The rear speakers are 4x6s. Pioneer also makes an excellant plate 4x6 with a seperate 4 inch speaker and a tweeter for highs. Pioneer is about the only company i know of that makes 4x10 speakers so they are your best bet!!
If they wired your new radio to a GM adapter plug, it will work when powered up. The only part that takes minimal skill is to connect the power to the adapter plug properly. They should have a connection diagram for the plug but need to know that the sub amp is expecting switched 12 volts on the power line.
The sub and amp are part of the main harness via a pigtail, the problem occurs because people don't connect the 'power antenna' output of aftermarket stereos up in the Fiero, since it doesn't have one.
The pigtail used to connect the sub into the factory harness HAS that connection, that's where it gets its power from.
As long as they connect all the outputs from the head unit into the harness, the factory sub should work as before.
Yes, you can use the sub amplifier and speaker with an aftermarket radio. It is usually easier if you install a connector on the radio to match the harness.
The sub amp has a pair of radio/speaker harness connectors so that it can be plugged in between the radio and the speaker harness.
You also need to determine if and how the new radio switches an amplifier or antenna on when it is turned on. They can either switch a 12 volt line or a ground. The Fiero's sub amp is expecting it to switch the 12 volt line.
If your new radio switches the ground, you will need to add a relay to switch the amplifier. The two pink wires to the amplifier (terminals 1 and 13) need to be switched.
If you need to connect a relay: Buy a relay with a 12 volt DC coil that can control a couple amps.
You only need one pole.
Connect the relay coil between the switched line and a 12 volt wire (the yellow wire from the radio would work).
Connect the 12 volt wire to the Pink amplifier wires via a normally open terminal set on the relay.
The Problem: no subwoofer operation
The fix,
If your harness is cut out or you have a harness and still have no sub output, you need to find the two very pink wires. Both of these wires need 12 volts. According to the Haynes manual they go to the same source. When I hooked mine up to my Sony's amp trigger, I got just noise, so I think there is an issue with my radio. Once hooked up to a good 12volt source the sub kicked on! Your antenna lead should suffice for the 12 volts, otherwise a cheat would be an accessory circuit.(Careful please) Do not use the gray, orange or brown wire if it is hanging under the dash. If you have now other choice, the yellow wire is ignition and accessory hot. If your harness is cut, this wire should be hooked to your radio's hot wire.
Hope this helps, good luck!
John Wood 87 GT with some warm bottom end now!
You still want to connect the batteries in parallel regardless of adding the isolator, but adding the isolator is a great idea. It lets the alternator charge both batteries, but one battery cannot drain the other. It is very common in the aftermarket car audio circle to use these on very high powered stereo systems -- one battery runs the stereo amps, the other battery runs the rest of the car. Generally, the battery for the amps is a deep-cell marine battery since they can handle the higher drain requirements. You can also buy a high output alternator with the isolator built-in; it has two positive leads, one to each battery. Check your local car stereo shop and ask them about installing dual batteries and they should be able to supply you with the necessary parts. Or check the back pages of Car Stereo or Car Audio magazine for mail order.
I used the have (circa 1990) a 1977 Pontiac Ventura painted "arctic blue", lowered 3" front (spindles)/4" rear (flipped springs), with five Kenwood amps pushing a total of more than 1600 watts RMS.
These pushed four Rockford Fosgate 15" subs (quasi-5th order) and 6" and 5" mids and 1" softdomes. I frequented the local IASCA sound-offs and never placed, but registered 147db (what'd you say???) between the headrests on the ground pounder scale . I worked at a local stereo shop and was sponsored by Kenwood, so I got most everything at shop cost. I had the high output alternator set up going to the main battery on one pole and a pair of marine batteries in the trunk on the other pole. Back then, the HO alternator was around $200, so it's not cheap, but a good way to go if you have a high powered system.
I've been more into Fieros than car stereos in the past several years, so other, better ways may be available...
Wallace Krebs
An isolator is about 40$, plus whatever cables/wiring you need. It's cheap insurance, and is specifically made and designed to do what is being asked.
The isolator, among other things, determines which battery needs the charge, keep one battery from 'charging' the other, and just generally keeps things happy.
You can even by them with 'bypass' switches, which will connect both batteries together, in case you leave your headlights on and need a jump, you've got one built in!
Nope.. the speaker you found in the Formula(FIREBIRD) is the exact same speaker as in a Fiero. The amps are the exact same as in a Fiero too.
Joe....4"x10" for the dash speakers. Pioneer puts out both a two way and a three way that work nicely 4 X 6 FOR THE SAIL PANEL
Actually, it's 1.5 X DIN, not 2 X DIN. You find double DIN in a lot of Mitsubishis, Nissans, Suzukis, Toyotas, and a few Mazdas and Subarus. 1.5 DIN is used mostly in GM and Chrysler cars, especially ones actually made by those manufacturers. Single DIN is used almost everywhere else, excepting Ford's new, goofy ovals (which can be adapted to DIN) and most cars with knob radios.
- mike
Also, what are the ramifications of using higher-rated speakers in the front of the car in conjunction with the 4 ohm 4x6 speakers in the rear? Is it less wear and tear on the system to make sure that all the speakers are the same ohm rating? If so, if I have to switch all four speakers to a different rating, how will that affect the (assumedly 4 ohm) speaker in the OEM subwoofer?
Bill Fuhrmann says:
Just to be clear, the "rating" in the question is the impedance. Impedance is just a fancy term for the equivalent to resistance when something is powered by an AC signal.

Amplifiers are basically voltage sources, they try to push a specific voltage through the speaker to create a volume level. Tranformerless output amps (almost anything made in the last several decades) really do not care what the speaker impedance is.

There are some considerations however. The circuits in an amplifier have both voltage and current limits. Amplifiers are designed with these limits balanced to the expected speaker load with a wide band of tolerance.

If you use a higher impedance speaker, the amplifier needs to put out a higher voltage at less current to produce the same sound level.

If you use a lower impedance speaker, the amplifier needs to put out more current at a lower voltage to produce the same sound level.

Since amplifiers are voltage sources, radically mis matched speakers will cause the low impedance speakers to sound louder than the high impedance ones. You may need to have the balance control set way off center to balance them.

If you hit the voltage limit of the amp by playing the radio louder than designed for or by trying to get the designed for sound level out of high impedance speakers, the voltage waveform output to the speaker will that the tops of the waves clipped off. This "clipping" creates a lot of high frequency noise and causes the power to go up drastically to get a small increase in volume. This power level due to clipping is a frequent cause of speaker coils cooking themselves to death. The large amount of high frequency noise is hard on the speaker's mechanical mounting.

If you hit the current limits of the amplifier, it tends to not be as nasty sounding but is likely to burn out the output stage of the amplifier.

To simplify the long text above: It won't hurt the speakers or amp as long as you don't try to push it to high volumes and are willing to have the balance control pushed out a bit to one end.

Regarding the effect on the subwoofer, it will have even less effect. The sub is driven by it's own amp with it's own volume control. It only connects to the main speakers to pick off the low frequencies and to adjust the volume as the music changes. ----------------

Option List
AAA A coating on the glass
AAA Standard equipment for vehicle
AD3 Window, hinged roof (Sunroof)
AF9 Seat, front, bucket, driver, passenger, reclining (84-87)
AF9 Lumbar seat, adjustable, driver, passenger (88)
AR9 Seat, front bucket, driver, passenger, manual reclining
AU3 Power door locks
AV3 Fastener, cargo tie down
A01 Window, deep tinted all, Soft Ray
A31 Window, electric control
A90 Deck lid release, remote control, electric
BC8 Front door pocket RH and LH (avaliable only w/A31)
BW1 Ornamentation, extra, rear
BW8 Ornamentation, extra, rear
BX1 Ornamentation, exterior, front end (special)
BY1 Ornamentation, extra, rear
B20 Interior, luxury (w/trim codes 662,822)
B34 Floor mats, front, carpeted
B48 Delux trunk trim
B57 Trim, extra, Deluxe
B6V Delete AU3 (in package order) (87)
B6W Delete A31 (in package order) (87)
B97 Molding, extra lower accent
CD4 Wiper system, pulse
CJB T-Tops (88)
C41 Heater, with fan and defroster (84-87)
C41 Heater, base (non AC) (88)
C49 Defogger, rear window, electric
C60 Air conditioner, front, manual controls
DB4 Sunshade, windshield, with pockets
DG7 Mirror, RH and LH remote control, electric
D34 Mirror, visor vanity
D35 Mirror, outside, rearview (painted)
D4N Gear, speedometer driven (N) 29 teeth 10041031 (red)
D4O Gear, speedometer driven (O) 30 teeth 10041032 (purple)
D4P Gear, speedometer driven (P) 30 teeth 25519845 (blue)
D4Q Gear, speedometer driven (Q) 31 teeth 25519846 (white)
D42 Engine Compartment Screen (84)
D60 Color and trim incompatably override (84-87)
D74 Mirror, inside, RH visor vanity, illuminated
D7W Gear, speedometer driven
D80 Extension, rear end panel (spoiler)
D9A Gear, speedometer drive (A) 10 teeth 8632646 (green)
D9B Gear, speedometer drive (B) 35 teeth 14047637 (natural)
D9C Gear, speedometer drive (C) 35 teeth 94408341
D90 Stripe, front end, body side
D96 Stripe, body side upper
E94 Beauville/Rally STX equipment
FW2 Transaxle, final drive, 3.06 ratio
FW5 Transaxle, final drive, 4.10 ratio
FX8 Transaxle, final drive, 3.61 ratio
F41 Suspension, heavy duty, front and rear (special)
F75 Transaxle, final drive, 3.18 ratio
GX3 Transaxle, final drive, 3.33 ratio
GY5 Transaxle, final drive, 3.65 ratio
KO5 Heater, engine block
K22 Generator, 94 ampere
K34 Cruise control, electric
K60 Generator, 100 ampere
K81 Generator, 66 ampere
K99 Generator, 85 ampere
LR8 Engine, 2.5L L4
L44 Engine, 2.8L V6 (High Output)
MD9 3-speed automatic transmission (THM125C)
MG2 Transmission, manual, 5-speed (Muncie) 3.61 ratio (86-88)
v MG3 Transmission, manual, 5-speed (Muncie)
MM4 Transmission, manual, 4-speed, provisions (84-86)
MM5 Transmission, manual, 5-speed, provisions (85-88)
MT2 5-speed manual transmission (Isuzu) 3.35 ratio (85-88)
MV9 3 speed automatic transmission (THM200C)
MX1 3 speed automatic transmission
MY7 4-speed manual transmission (Isuzu)
MY8 4-speed manual transmission (Muncie) 3.32 ratio (84)
M17 4-speed manual transmission (Muncie) 3.65 ratio (85-86)
M19 4-speed manual transmission (Muncie) 4.10 ratio (84)
NA5 Emission system, federal requirements
NB1 Emission system, closed loop
NB2 Emission system, Calif. requirments
NK3 Steering wheel, Formula, 3-spoke (84-85)
NK4 Steering wheel, leather wrapped, 4-spoke (86-87)
NN7 Fuel filter door, delete lock
NP5 Steering wheel, leather wrapped, 3-spoke (84-85)
NX1 Wheel, 13 x 5.5
N24 Wheels, turbo finned, aluminum (same as PX1) (84-85)
N33 Steering column, tilt type
N36 Steering wheel, rally 4-spoke (86-87)
N46 Steering wheel, four-spoke, vinyl
N78 Wheels, Hi-Tech Turbo, aluminum 14 x 6
N90 Wheel, 15x7 cast aluminum
PB4 Lock kit, aluminum wheel
PHO Wheel, 15x6 front, 15x7 rear, diamond honeycomb
PXT Wheels, 13 inch turbo-finned, aluminum
PX1 Wheels, 13 x 5.5 turbo finned aluminum (same as N24)
PO2 Wheel covers, tri-tech 13 inch (color coordinated)
PO6 Wheel trim rings
QAB P195/70R14 blackwall, steel-belted (1988)
QDX P195/70R14 blackwall, steel-belted (85-87)
QDY P195/70R14 white-lettered, steel-belted (85-87)
QFE P185/75R14 blackwall, steel-belted (86-88)
QFG P185/75R14 white-lettered, steel-belted (86-87)
QHS P185/80R13 blackwall, steel-belted (84-85)
QHU P185/80R13 white-lettered, steel-belted (84-85)
QPU P215/60R14 blackwall, steel-belted (84-87)
QPV P215/60R14 white-lettered, steel-belted (84-85)
QZN P185/80R13 blackwall
QZT P205/60R15 blackwall, steel-belted (front)
P215/60R15 blackwall, steel-belted (rear)
TR9 Lamp group, courtesy consists of;
U25 Rear compartment lamp
U29 Instrument panel, courtesy
UA1 Heavy duty battery
UL1 ETR AM/FM stereo w/clock
UL5 Radio delete (all)
UL6 AM w/clock (1984)
UM4 ETR AM/FM stereo w/seek & scan, auto reverse, clock
UM6 ETR AM/FM stereo w/clock, cass, auto rev cass, seek & scan (85-88)
UM7 ETR AM/FM stereo w/clock, seek & scan (86-87)
UP7 Radio, provisions for mono installation
UQ6 Speaker, sub woofer (86-88)
UT4 ETR AM stereo/FM stereo w/clock, auto reverse, seek & scan, EQ & touch control (85-87)
UU6 ETR AM/FM stereo w/clock, cass, EQ, seek & scan
UU7 ETR AM/FM stereo w/clock, cass (1984)
UU9 ETR AM/FM stereo (1984)
UW5 Radio, provisions for stereo installation
UX1 ETR AM/FM stereo w/clock, cass, auto rev, search, replay, seek & scan, EQ, clock (85-88)
U25 Rear compartment lamp
U29 Instrument panel, courtesy
U63 AM monaural radio, without clock
U66 Speaker system, 4, dual front dash mounted, dual extended range, package shelf/quarter
VC8 Substitution or deletion authorized (84-87)
VK3 License plate, front mounting package
VO8 Heavy duty cooling
V53 Luggage Carrier, delete (1984)
V56 Luggage carrier, deck lid (87-88)
V58 Luggage carrier, deck lid (84-86)
V73 Vehicle statement US/CANADA
WS1 Option picks (group) (85-87)
WS3 Option picks (group) (1986)
WS6 Performance package, special (standard on 84-85 SE's)
WS8 Priced order acknowledged
WS9 High mileage coupe (84)
WU2 Fiero GT
WV9 Package, value leader, (84-86)
WV9 Package, value leader, (87) (PM37 + WV9 = PE37)
WV9 Package, value leader, (88) (2PM37 + WV9 = WPE37)
WO2 Sport appearance package (88)
W61 Option group #1 (87)
W63 Option group #2 (87)
W66 Formula option (88)
W69 SE option "Special Edition" (84-87)
YT1 Build-up, custom door and quarter
Y82 Indy Pace Car ltd. edition (Includes AD3,B34,DG7,D80, NP5, UU6 & V53) (84)
Y99 Special Rally suspension package (standard on 84-87 SE's)
YLM P215/60 R15 BSW STL (FRONT) W/P215/60 R15 BSW STL (rear)
ZV1 Manufacturers statement of orign
Z49 Export, Canadian modification, mandatory base equipment
1SA Option group #1 (88)
1SB Option group #2 (88)
1SC Option group #3 (88)
13B Genor cloth(84) Pallex cloth(85) Lt. Slate Gray
13C Placid/Pallex cloth, Lt. Slate Gray (84-85) (2 tone)
13D Indy 500/Sierra leather/Pallex cloth, Lt. Slate Gray
13I Interior trim, Light Smoke Gray
14 Light Gray Metalic (84-85)
14U Light Gray Metalic, U (upper of two tone)
16 Silver Metalic (86-88)
18 Med Gray Metalic (accent) (84-87)
18L Med Gray Metalic, L (lower)
19P Wheel color, black
21 Bright Blue Metalic (87)
40 White (84-86, 88)
40L Secondary Color, exterior, White
40U White, U (upper of two tone)
41 Black
41L Black accent
41U Black, U (upper of two tone)
53 Bright Yellow (88)
56 Light Gold Metalic (86-87)
60P 15" diamond spoke wheels, gold
62B Ripple cloth, Lt. Saddle
62D Pallex cloth, Lt. Saddle
622 Suede leather/Pallex cloth, Lt. Saddle
64B Genor cloth(84), Pallex cloth(85) Med. Doeskin
64C Placid/Pallex cloth, Med. Doeskin (2 tone)
64D Pallex cloth, Med Doeskin (2 tone)
643 Fleece/Suede, Med Doeskin (2 tone)
66B Pallex cloth, Med. Beechwood
66D Metrix cloth, Med. Beechwood
71 Red (84-85)
71U Red, U (upper of two tone)
77 Ruby Red (87-88)
81 Bright Red (86-88)
81U Bright Red, U (upper of two tone)
82B Ripple cloth, Dark Gray
82D Pallex cloth, Dark Gray D (trim level) deluxe
82I Interior Trim, Medium Dark Gray
820 Grey seatbelts
822 Suede leather/Pallex Cloth(86-88), Ventura leather/Pallex cloth(88), Dark Gray(86-87) Med. Dark. Gray(88)
84P Wheel Color, Gray
6AA, 7AA, 8AA and 9AA codes (the "A's" can be any letter)
6 code = left front spring code
7 code = right front spring code
8 code = left rear spring code
9 code = right rear spring code
See spring codes.
WA-0000 (0's = any four numbers) code on the bottom of the tag is the Fisher WA paint number.
Air Condictioning and Heater C36-C46, C51-C69
AXLE (front) FL1-FX2, F16-F82
AXLE (rear) HO1-H99, HA1-HY9
G01-G99, GA1-GY9
LO1-L99, LA1-LY9
RADIO UK1-UY8, U56-U96
ROOF (ornamentation & trim) CA1-CC3, C01-C10
SEATS A34-A81, AE5-AV7
WHEEL & TIRE N60-N99, P01-P99
PA1-PH9, PW1-PY9
Q01-Q99, QA1-QY9
From: Scott Backer
BTW, the 86 GT was designated as a G97 model (1G2PG97R.......) instead of an "A", "E", or "F" 37 in the VIN. The 37 indicated a coupe style in 86. All 87-88's were 11's. Preceded by "E" (coupe) "F" (SE), or "G" (GT). Strange change by Pontiac concerning the VIN's.
Hope this clarifies instead of confusing.
Ed Parks , from The Fiero Factory -------------------------


A little info up front first. The O2 sensor is a zirconium oxide/air battery.

It generates a voltage just like a battery, based on the ratio of oxygen in the exaust to the amount of oxygen in the surrounding air. Since the percentage of O2 in the air doesn't change measurably, this is a reliable way to measure the O2 in the exhaust. Now it turns out that the amount of O2 in the exhaust is directly proportional to the mixture. Very little indicates a rich mixture, and lots means a lean mixture. A "perfect" mixture results in a voltage from the sensor of 500mV, give or take a mV. Now, on to the gory details.

With the engine fully warmed up, it should vary between around 200mV and 800mV, with the average being pretty much exactly 500mV. The number of times that the voltage swings from rich (low mV) to lean (high mV) should be a couple of times a second, and no less that once a second. If the voltage is fixed rich, try unplugging a vacuum line to see if it leans out. If no effect, you've probably got a bad sensor or wiring harness to the sensor. With the meter hooked up to the sensor and the sensor disconnected from the wiring harness, you can ground the positive side of the wiring harness (not the sensor as grounding a warmed up sensor may damage it!). This makes the ECM think that the engine is running rich, and the meter should show the O2 sensor mV going up as the ECM tries to lean out the mixture. Conversely, you can use a 1.5V battery with positive hooked up to the wiring harness positive and negative hooked up to ground to send the ECM 1.5V, which will trick the ECM into richening up the mixture. Your meter should show the mV going down, way down.

If you don't get the expected results, chances are you may have a bad ECM or injectors, MAF sensor, or some other problem. Check out your local library for the professional Chilton's service manual (not that lame piece of crap that's for sale at the local auto discount store) and copy the trouble shooting flowcharts out of them. I've used them do diagnose really tough problems on my Pontiac. Good luck!

------------------- ----------------

If I remember correctly, you are having this difficulty on a Fiero with the V6 MPFI system, right?

The way I understand the ECM, the "throttle closed" position is a dynamic thing; meaning that the computer simply looks at the TPS at idle, and records the lowest voltage (most closed position) as the place where the throttle stop is.

This being the case, there is no way to "adjust" the sensor.

This leaves two possibilities:

1) The BRAND NEW tps that you just installed is bad (not beyond believability... electronics are probably more susceptible to being bad "out of the box" than other parts... and failure in 30 days is not unheard of.

2) The TPS is installed in such a manner that the motion of the butterfly valve in the throttle body doesn't move the TPS at all. I know it is possible to mount the TPS upside-down. I also know that the unit is assembled in such a way that the little arm that is driven by the butterfly valve is easy to knock off; it is held in place by a small metal clip (that can easily be knocked off by a well-intentioned person -equipped with pliers- attempting to "adjust" it). -It's a long story, but the short version is that I have a testerone-poisoned friend who thinks that he's an auto mechanic...

In either of the above cases, you would get a CODE 21. The first scenario is easily diagnosed by a multimeter; the TPS is simply a large, spring-loaded potentiometer. Simply connect one lead to the center electrical connector, and one to either of the other connectors and you should see a change in resistance as the TPS arm is moved through it's range of motion. The second scenario is also equally easy to diagnose... simply go and take a good, close look at the way the thing works when you move the butterfly valve (throttle). Is it moving freely throughout the motion of the throttle? if it tends to "hang" open or if it isn't moving you will need to remove and re-install it properly.

If all of that fails to produce a positive result, I'd guess that you have a bad TPS, or the TPS wiring to the ECM is broken/shorted, or the ECM is bad.

After my friend knocked the arm off of mine, it would idle erratically, and shudder and generally act nasty while being driven. after I fixed it (and then re-installed it right-side up)The idle and driveability were 1000% better.

I didn't even have to disconnect power to the ECM to get it to "recalibrate" itself. ----------------------------

FIERO\Sept.91 Issue KitCar
Disclaimer: This article was originally taken from the Sept. '91 issue of Kit Car. This actual text was cut from a Webpage : Go there this is a guy who tries mods out with a Dyno test in between.
Some interesting performance reading here !!!
Regards ! /Kjell-Ove Mickelsson

FROM THE GROUND UP Making a standard production car handle well on the racetrack often requires a variety of modifications. Each change is aimed at correcting one or more problem areas. You should start from the ground up by selecting the right tire sizes.
The basic handling problems any rear- or mid-engine car is that the center of gravity is behind the traction center of the tires. Rear-engine race cars compensate for this by using larger tires on the back and smaller tires on the front. This moves the traction center to the rear so it is on, or behind, the center of gravity. You can use larger rear tires on your Fiero for the same benefit. The stock rear fenders have room for Goodyear ZRS 255/50x16 tires on 16x9 wheels, although 225/50x16 tires on 16x8 wheels will also provide improvement.
The basic stability of your mid-engine Fiero can also be improved by moving the center of gravity forward. The easiest way to do this is to move the battery from the rear to the forward luggage compartment, or fit it ahead of the right front wheel well. The latter location requires more work, but it does preserve some of the limited storage space.
The rear control arms on a stock Fiero are mounted the the frame with rubber bushings. They allow the rear arms to move forward under power and rearward under braking, and the effect on handling is a change in steering direction whenever the throttle or the brakes are applied. The other problem with the earlier Fiero rear control arm bushings is that they deflect inward during cornering, which changes the rear wheel camber angle. Both of these handling problems can be corrected by replacing the stock rubber control arm bushings with steel bushings.
Steel bushings are required for this application because of extreme loads resulting from driving and cornering forces. I have found that the only bushings that hold up are aircraft-quality hardened steel on hardened steel mono-balls. Steel sleeves must be welded to the control arms to secure the mono-balls in place. This operation requires that the rear arms be removed from the car. The installation takes time and money, but are well worth the results. Changing the rear control arm bushings is the most significant change that can be made to improve your Fiero's handling.
When the rubber is removed from the rear control arm bushings, there is potential for more ride harshness and road noise. This is usually not a problem because the rear subframe is still mounted to the body with rubber mounts.
If you want ultimate handling on the racetrack and you're not concerned about noise, you can replace the rubber subframe mounts with steel or aluminum to keep the subframe from moving in relation to the body. The handling improvements gained by this modification are less than when the control arm rubber is removed, but it does provide some advantage on the racetrack.
The front control arm bushings are also mounted in rubber so they deflect when cornering loads are applied. If these bushings are replaced with steel and nylon bushings, there is a noticeable improvement in front-end cornering power. Since the weak link in the Fiero handling is not the front suspension, and because there is less weight on the front end, changing the front control arm bushings is not recommended unless race ready handling is desired. The arm must be removed from the car to replace the bushings.
Besides the rear control arm bushings, adding and/or changing the stabilizer bars are the most significant handling improvements you can make on your Fiero. Due to the Fiero's inherent tendency to spin-out at the limits of its cornering power, Pontiac engineers tuned the cars handling characteristics to provide an excessive amount of understeer. This trait ensures safe handling for the majority of drivers, but does not permit fast cornering. The stock Fiero uses a front stabilizer bar and no rear stabilizer bar to create the desired understeer. If your Fiero has steel rear control arm bushings, its rear suspension is capable of absorbing more cornering force, so some amount of rear stabilizer can be used. I have found that by increasing the and effectiveness of the front stabilizer bar, We can use a large rear stabilizer bar. By matching the size of the front and rear bars, it is possible to make a Fiero handle with neutral steer instead of excessive understeer. Neutral steer provides the maximum cornering speed because all the tires work at the same level. Large front and rear stabilizer bars limit the body roll angle and positive camber, which keeps the tires from losing cornering power
The use of large front and rear stabilizer bars doesn't have any significant effect on ride quality or road noise. The addition of the front and rear bars will also make a significant improvement in steering response and precision. The 1.25 inch diameter rear bar recommended by my company, (Herb Adams VSE, Dept. KC,23865 Fairfield Place, Carmel, CA 93923 408/649-8423) is tuned to be used in conjunction with a one inch front stabilizer bar. Do not use a rear bar without the front; doing so will result in oversteer, which can be dangerous.
Using a larger front bar improves the steering precision, allowing removal of the stock steering dampener. The Fiero dampener reduces steering wheel kickback and vibration, but with a more effective front stabilizer bar, these problems are minimized so it is no longer needed. Removing the steering dampener also allows the steering wheel to turn faster for improved handling and overall control.
Spring rates on stock Fieros are correct for most purposes, but the problem is that most of these cars are too high off the ground. The best way to lower either the front or the rear is to cut the existing springs. By cutting half a coil off a spring and reforming the ends, you can lower your fiero about one inch. Lowering the car reduces the available ride travel, but for most driving conditions, there is no loss of ride quality. with Koni adjustable shocks and struts, you can tune the ride quality in relation to to improved handling.
The brakes on an '88 Fiero are extremely good even on the racetrack. Unfortunately, it's not an easy conversion to mount the '88 brakes onto an '84-'87 Fiero. This means you will have to suffer with the barely effective brakes now on your car. I have tried many things to improve the stock brakes, but there doesn't seem to be an easy solution. Semi-metallic pads offer some advantage for a limited fix.
As for chassis reinforcements, the basic Fiero structure is heavy and pretty stiff. I didn't notice any structural improvement after installing a rollcage for racing purposes, so I don't recommend this modification for street use.
The camber adjustment on the front of a Fiero is accomplished by rotating the upper ball joints from front to the back. The ball joint is offset between the mounting bolts so you have your choice of two positions. For the best handling, you want the position that gives the most negative camber. Usually this isn't much, so you'll need to move the holes to get more. I don't recommend more then one degree of negative camber for street use.
For more caster, move the spacers between the upper control arm and the frame bracket, positioning the upper arm as far back in the car as possible. You only need one degree of positive caster to have good handling and you can usually obtain this by moving the spacers on the Fiero.
As for toe-in, it should be 1/16-inch at the front to provide good control and stability under braking. Rear toe-in is set by turning the rear tie rods. It's important to have between 1/16-inch and 1/8-inch toe-in at each rear wheel. Measure each rear wheel in relation to the rocker panels when determining rear toe-in. If you measure one wheel versus the other, you can end up with the proper toe-in, but the car will probably dog-track.
For setting rear camber, move the shock strut slotted hole where it connects to the rear upright. For street driving, you want at least one degree of negative camber; for racing, you need about two degrees.
Even the fuel-injected V6 Fiero provides only average acceleration and top speed, so many Fiero owners want to know what they can do to increase their engine's power level. As part of the racing program, I conducted a series of power development tests to determine ways to improve the output of a Fiero V6 engine. Racing applications were at the IMSA Firestone Firehawk Events, which allow open exhausts, so most of the testing was done in this manner. The performance improvements, then, should be proportional of those found on a car with a street-legal exhaust.
Before I made any changes, the stock V6 engine was dyno-tested "as installed" with the factory's exhaust, air inlet, and electronics management systems. As indicated by the power curves and the dyno data sheet, the Fiero V6 engine produced a peak corrected horsepower of 110 at 4500 rpm, significantly lower than the advertised 125hp. The difference might be accounted for by differences in dynos, but the important thing for the evaluation was to establish a good baseline.
Blueprinting an engine refers to the practice of bringing all the internal specs and tolerances up to those published in the MVMA book. The process is simple, but time-consuming because the engine must be removed from the car and completely disassembled. My race team machined the block to provide .005-inches of piston fit and to produce the minimum deck height allowed. We also decked the heads to provide minimum chamber size. The bearings were fit to .0020 / .0025-inch, and all the rotating parts were precision balanced. Head porting is not allowed, but a precision valve job was done to ensure the best possible air flow through the heads. Our dyno testing showed that the blueprinting work increased peak output 3 horsepower at 4500 rpm and 17 horsepower at 5500 rpm. Less friction and better breathing help at higher engine speeds, so if you're interested in using more rpm, it would be worth the effort. Note that the test on the blueprinted engine was done with the stock intake and exhaust systems.
Open exhaust tests showed a six horsepower gain from 4500-5500 rpm. This system replaced the stock muffler and converter with a six-foot long, two-inch diameter straight pipe. Such a system is to noisy for the street, but it does show potential with an improved street-legal system. The open exhaust test was run with the stock exhaust manifolds and with the stock air inlet system.
The next stage of engine development involved a high-lift camshaft. Most stock engines will see a power increase with more valve lift. We needed to keep the idle equally smooth and the emission levels the same as the stock engine, so we didn't increase valve timing. With a higher lift cam, the valves are opened faster as well as farther, but the opening and closing point are the same as stock. A high-lift cam increased the power level by 15 horsepower at 5000 rpm and 14 horsepower at 5500 rpm. The level of increase might be less on a car with a street legal exhaust, but the effects should still be rewarding. Installing a new camshaft in a Fiero with the V6 engine requires removing the engine, so some owners might want to switch to 1.60 rocker arms instead. The performance improvement will be slightly less, but the installation is easier.
Inspection of the Fiero exhaust manifolds showed some manufacturing related problems that severely restricted flow of exhaust gases. The attached sketch shows where the manufacturer left excess metal inside the manifolds. After these edges were ground away, power increased eight horsepower at 5000 and 5500 rpm. You can eliminate these edges on your Fiero exhaust manifold with a small die grinder.
In searching for more power, my race crew tested the Fiero V6 engine on the dyno without the stock air cleaner and inlet system, and we were surprised to find that this produced no change in power. Apparently, the Pontiac engineers did a good job on these parts because they work well, even though they look restrictive.
Another alteration that made little or no difference was cam timing. Advancing or retarding both the stock and high-lift cam resulted in power level changes of only one horsepower, more at some rpms and less at others. This shows that both cams are optimized at their normal position
Testing various PROM (Programmable Read-Only Memory) computer chips in the electronic engine management system also showed that the Pontiac engineers did their job well. Different PROMS with various fuel/air ratios and timing curves showed no power improvement. We did choose a PROM with less full throttle enrichment at high rpm to help our fuel economy during the endurance races. This change gave us about five minutes more racing on a tank of fuel, so we used it for many events. The last race was run at night. The weather was cool so the air was dense. After about an hour of racing, we burned a piston from being too lean. We weren't too happy, but it showed again that the factory electronic engineers usually know what's best for the average customer.
Owners of Fiero-based kit cars can make a number of performance improvements with a relatively small investment of time and money. Using any of all the above modifications will substantially improve speed and handling. Like most things, though, the results will be proportional to how much effort and money you choose to invest.
Ok now it is my turn to tell you what I think about these mods and also providing alternatives to some of these mods that you would rather do instead of the ones mentioned above. Remember that this is my opinion and that means that I might not be right about these mods. Some of your cars could benefit more from these mods then other cars, but all cars should show some form of improvement. I will go in the same order as the sub-categories above.
I have to agree with going with wider tires. However for those of you that would like to keep your stock 14 inch or 15 inch rims, improvement will still be seen by adding wider rubber to these factory rims. The stock 15x7 rims are capable of using 245 wide tires in certain manufacturer brands, however most will fit with no problems. Tires that are 255 wide won't fit correctly so I suggest that 245 be the widest tire to be put on the stock 15 inch rims. Check with tire manufacturer before buying such wide tires to make sure that they will properly fit your rims. With the stock 14x6 rims I would suggest going no wider then 225. I have heard that putting 245's on the rear with 225's on the front will provide substantial improvement in handling as well as all around driving. Right now I plan on putting Dunlop Sp Sport 8000 tires on some grey 15 inch GT rims that I have acquired with 245/50/15's on the rear and 225/50/15's on the front. By using a lower profile tire (50), this should keep the speedo about the same as the tire diameter will be the same as with my stock rims. For those of you with the 14 inch rims I would suggest a tire combo of 225 on the rear and 215 on the front.
Moving the battery is also a easy mod and helps to distribute the weight of the car more evenly. West Coast Fieros sells a mounting bracket for mounting the battery in the front compartment under the factory spare tire.
I know that replacing your control arm bushings with steel sounds like a lot of work. If you would like more improvement but don't want to use steel bushings, then you can use polyurethane bushings. These are more readily available and do not require any welding. These bushings can be purchased from just about anywhere but to get the right ones the first time, I would suggest going with the Fiero Store or call them at 1-800-FieroGT. They have poly bushings for all model year Fieros for the front and rear control arms. They also supply poly bushings for the cradle assembly to replace your stock rubber mounts. Since most Fieros are getting up there in mileage and in years, I would suggest replacing the stock rubber and cradle bushings with the poly bushings if you are going to replace them at all. Most of the rubber bushings have also begun to wear and decay over the years so upgrading couldn't hurt. West Coast Fieros sells aluminum cradle mounting bushings. These are the ultimate in handling is concerned. However I wouldn't suggest them unless you plan on only racing your car. These bushings would provide a harsh ride on the street that you might not like. West Coast Fieros also sells polyurethane transmission mounts. I would suggest upgrading these if the cradle is dropped out of the car.
Adding a rear sway bar is one of the best ways to neutralize understeer and trailing throttle oversteer. A rear sway bar is available from again, the Fiero Store. The price is $129 and it comes with poly bushings. The stock front bar comes with rubber bushings but can be replace by poly bushings for only $17 from the Fiero Store. This might also help the bumpsteer of the car by replacing the factory rubber front bar bushings with polyurethane ones. SPRINGS, SHOCKS AND OTHER STUFF
Instead of cutting your stock springs you can purchase lowering springs that were designed exclusively for the Fiero. They are available from Eibach. The part number is 3802.140. It is the Prokit and lowers the car approximately 3/4-1 inch. All four springs can be purchased for around $200. Drop spindles are also available to lower the front of the car only instead of using lowering springs. These are available from RCC. They are more expensive then springs but keep the same geometry of the tire as its relation to the road. An alignment might be in order after putting lowering springs on.
Koni, KYB, and Monroe make some good shocks and struts. Koni's are the best but also the most expensive. KYB's are second and the Monroe's are pretty much a factory replacement. These can be ordered from the Fiero Store or from you local performance parts dealer.
For those wanting to completely overhaul their suspensions, I would recommend RCC. They have complete front end kits and produce mounts to put an '88 cradle under a '84-'87 Fiero. This is for people that are serious about handling. Expect to pay a pretty penny for these parts.
If you are wanting to upgrade your braking system, I would again have to suggest Ryanne or West Coast Fieros. They both sell kits to improve the braking efficiency. PISA also sells a brake upgrade called Speedway Brakes. It is a great kit but it cost $1000. All three kits have vented rotors and larger calipers. With some kits the use of larger wheels will be necessary. Still check them out though.
Many people are converting their brakes to the Grand Am style brakes. All of the components bolt on with small modifications and all the Grand Am parts are more available and a hell of a lot cheaper too then Fiero brakes. The calipers, brake pads and rotors from an '91Grand Am work and provide a significant increase in stopping power over stock. Plus the Grand Am rotors are vented! Cool.
Not much to say here. Go with factory specs or what is recommended above.
Along with the above modifications, there are several more that can help produce more power without decreasing the reliability. Since Herb could not port his heads, this is a mod that can produce significant increases in horsepower. Between 13 and 20 can be expected with this mod.
I will have to disagree with one thing that Herb states above. This is concerning the use of changing the stock rockers to 1.6 ratio rockers. Sure they are cheaper, easier to install and do not require removing the engine like going to a different cam, but they also change the geometry of the valvetrain. By going with higher ratio rocker arms, the contact point on the valve is not the same and the higher rocker ratio pushes the valve at a slight angle down and up, instead of straight down and straight back up. This will cause premature valve guide wear and a loss of performance, and a head rebuild. I just reccommend going to a higher lift cam and sticking with the stock 1.5 ratio arms either roller tipped or not. Sure the engine will have to be pulled to change the cam, but your valve guides will last much longer going this way.
A newcomer to the scene is what is called an underdrive pulley. It replaces the stock pulley that is located on the crankshaft. It is smaller then stock so it slows down the accessory drive belts which in turn produces more horsepower. You can expect an increase of about 3-7 horsepower with this bolt on and it only costs $80 from the Fiero Store.
Another mod that is new is the adaptation of the heads that are on the 3.4L pushrod to the Fiero engine. These heads bolt right on and can be used with the stock intake and exhaust system. The 3.4L heads have larger exhaust valves(1.60 vs 1.42). This gives the exhaust better breathing which can yield about 10hp at higher rpm just by bolting these heads onto the stock Fiero engine. Make sure you get the heads that are iron not aluminum. These heads can be taken from '92-'93 Camaros or from some front wheel drive minivans.
Borla has made a limited production run of Cat-back exhaust systems. This has been dyno proven to add 7 peak hp and an increase throughout the whole rpm range. Fiero Heaven also is designing a cat-back system and dyno results are now now complete.
An ignition upgrade such as Crane, Jacobs, or MSD can provide between 1-10 hp improvement. These also help provide better throttle response and improved gas mileage. Don't buy fancy sparkplugs. They are just a waste of money. Stick with the stock AC delco plugs. ----------------

There is no doubt that the "Ultimate" dog bone ( torque strut) sold by the Fiero Store is more durable than the stock GM unit. However, my experience with polyurethane bushings has shown that while they maintain a better hold on the engine the polyurethane dog bones are a bit noiser than the stock rubber ones that GM used. For my taste I'll choose the better control and life that polyurethane bushings provide even with the small a bit of noise that they add.. However, if you consider the price of the "Ultimate" dog bone at $45, the price is very high. There is another way to achieve the same quality of the Ultimate dog bone at about half the price. . First, obtain an old used dog bone from a 1985 or 1986 V6. These early V6 dog bones utilized cylindrical shaped bushings as did all 4 cylinder dog bones. Next, remove the rubber bushings using a large socket and a vice (as a press) and press them out. Now clean the bare dogbone with emery cloth, paint it any color of your choice and let it dry. (I paint my dog bones the same color of red used on the V6 plenum and valve covers.) Now order a set of Energy Suspension dog bone bushings P/N 3-7103 from you local auto parts store. My store charges $19.95 for this bushing set. These polyurethane bushings fit early ( 85-86) V6 dog bones and all 4 cylinder dogbones. Manually push in or tap the four bushing halfs into the dog bone housing and press in or lightly hammer in the metal bolt cylinder centers to hold everything together.. You now have what I believe to be a better dog bone for the $20 investment.. One final note: Before installing the dog bone, be sure to grease the bolts that hold the dogbone in place.This will reduce wear as the torque strut moves when the engine accelerates. Dennis LaGrua Neshanic, NJ ----------------------- ----------------

the quickest steering ratio available?year/model/option. -- ws6 is 19.2:1 and non ws6 is 22:1
-----------------------------replacing springs-------
I had the exact same problem when I rebuilt the front end on my 85 SE. Normal spring compressors do not work due to clearance problems as you are discovering. The trick is to be able to safely compress the springs off the car and hold them compressed while installing. I was advised to compress the coils off the car and wrap the compressed coils with coat hanger wire. This seems to me to be pretty unsafe to both me and the car. What I found was a cheap Coil Spring Lowering Kit from JC Whitney (P/N 71TB2550W - $11.98) that is intended to clamp the coils lower on the car. I would never do this on the car while operating it but it worked very well as a holding device to compress the springs enough to get them into the control arm. The JCW kit is a pair of threaded rods with 2 straps that clamp the rod to the spring. Just compress the spring with the AutoZone compressor and install and tighten the JCW kit. Carefully remove the AutoZone compressor and the JCW clamps will be holding the coil compressed. Install the spring (still not the easiest of jobs) and use a floor jack under the lower control arm to compress the spring enough to remove the clamps. You want to be careful of the orientation of the clamps on the spring. You want the JCW clamps to be facing front and back when the spring is set properly in the control arms, this means the AutoZone compressor must be set up to be left and right as the spring sits in the car. This will give you the clearance needed to install them and get them off the spring when you are done. I literally spent months trying to figure out how to do this safely on my car last summer. This turned out to be the best way for me. Joe Wyman also sells a set of mini spring compressors that are designed to completely compress 1 coil, which should be enough to allow the spring to be installed. Contact him at for more info on his tool. Be careful, these springs generate a lot of force when compressed. Good luck... Bob Englert Greensboro, NC
Have you replaced your shocks and struts yet? If so.. then that means that you should also replace your steering stabilizer shock. I know that when the shocks and struts go on a car, that it's a good chance that ALL the shocks all over the car are gone. There are two more, the steering stabilizer shock (very easy to replace and only costs $40 bucks) and the front engine strut shock. It's located under the car and attaches to the frame and to the bottom of the engine, right near the cat.
The steering stabilizer will make a big difference between the way the steering wheel feels. Turning will be more responsive and it will absorb allot more shock and road vibrations.
The steering stabilizer is designed to absorb/slow down the shock of a front wheel hitting a hole or bump that may try to jerk the wheel out of your hands. If Pontiac does not have them, try the Fiero Store in Conn.
Bump steer on the 84-87 Fiero is caused on the rear suspension by thelower pivot point (balljoint) not being parallel with the stabilizing link (tierod) which is attached at a higher point. The fixed length of the tierod will cause the wheel to toe in or out as the suspension raises and lowers. Results are "rear steer". This suspension design was completely changed on 88's.
Would suggest a thorough examination of control arm bushings, balljoints, and tierods. Improperly adjusted wheel bearings can give the same symptoms as all of the above and are an often overlooked item. One or more would cause your car to feel too sensitive.

FIERO\Suspension\front\ball joints
To find out if you really need ball joints, jack up each side in turn, using the car's side post jack. Then, use a pry bar under the lower A-arm to pick up each wheel. Any movement of the lower A-arm after contact and before the wheel moves indicates a bad lower ball joint or pivot bushing.
Shake the wheel in and out by grabbing it top and bottom, and you can check the upper ball.
Shake the wheel by grabbing it at the 9 and 3 oclock positions to check tie rod ends. Movement indicates need to repair or replace. Wheels should be pointed straight ahead while you are doing these checks.
Roger Madden
the topic of replaceing the ball joints and I made the special ball joint tool from the Michigan fiero club page
I am not the know all beat all Fiero guru here but let me relay my experiences in this area. I have changed most of the suspension in my 86-SE/V6 which from what I understand is identical to your 87. The books all say that you have to replace the entire lower "A" arm if you want to change out either your lower ball joints or your bushings. The reason for the bushings is that they were not just pressed in like 99% of the vehicles out there. They were actually epoxied in the bushing cups which makes it extremely difficult to press them out. I found that you would do yourself a favor by using a torch to burn them out, then clean the bushing socket with a wire brush. As for the ball joints, I did not find any reason why you could not just press the old ones out and press the new one's in which is what I did. I have heard from others on the list that there ball joints were tack welded into the sockets from the factory. Mine were either not tack welded or the original ball joints had already been replaced. Good luck, Brian
you can have the ball joint pressed out and a new one pressed in. You may have to have the control arm removed to do this. You don't need to buy a new control arm. Places sell just the ball joint. If you can't find it locally, contact the fiero store at FieroStore

I replaced the lower ball joints in my 86 SE with little trouble. I have heard from others on the list that there lower ball joints were actually tack welded in and had to have that ground down before the ball joint could be removed. Just something to look into before you start pounding. Take care, Good luck, Brian
Anyone know how to seat a new ball joint into the lower control arm of my 88?

I found that 1 1/2 inch diameter "black iron plumbing pipe" fit like it was designed for the application. I used a chunk of this to support the LCA while I used my bench vice to force the ball joint into the LCA. The pipe must be short enough that you can get it into your vice, but longer than the protrusion of the ball joint stud out the other side of the LCA.

To avoid possible confusion... I don't know what those plumbers use for measuring devices, but the stuff is called 1 1/2 inch black iron, but the ID is 1 5/8 inch and the OD was nearly 2 inches. The important part is that it worked.

I also recommend that you a) deburr the end of the pipe beforehand to minimize scratching and the like to the LCA, and b) make sure that the ball joint is going in evenly and not cocked in the LCA hole as you squeeze the contraption in your bench vice. "Bruce D. Walters"

Chevettes have the same part number for lower ball joints as the 84-87 Fieros do.

I got the pressed ball joint remover from Autozone ($99 deposit for return). It should be called the Fiero poly bushing installation tool! The hole on the one side of the press matches PERFECTLY to the front top control arm sleeve (allows for the bushing to go through it). I just took a small block of wood to the other end, and installed all 4 bushings in less than 5 min. PLUS, one of the metal cylinders that comes with it fits the lower control arm sleeve perfectly as well. I never imagined that it would be this easy. I just wish I knew this when I installed my rear poly bushings. Plus, while you have the control arms off, you may as well change the ball joints as well. :) Greg

----------------------- ----------------

FIERO\Suspension\front\control arms

FIERO\Suspension\front\Rack & Pinion

FIERO\Suspension\front\tie rods
Have you guys got any suggestions on changing the inner tie rod ends? I've already done all the balljoints and I'm familiar with the Fiero's front and rear suspension.

Take the rack off the car first. Slide the boot at each end down on the tie rod to expose the inner end, notice that the tie rod end has a sleeve over the rack itself with a crimp on each side down onto flats on the rack. This will make sense when you actually see it. Grind these crimps off, grip the rack by the flats, and unscrew the tie rod. Screw the new one on and crimp the ends again. This keeps it from unscrewing while you are driving down the road. Put the boots back in place and put the rack back in the car, then check the front toe. That is all there is to it.
- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering


I did the passenger side inner with the rack still on the car.

Push back the boots, and turn the wheel far enough to get a Crescent wrench on the flat part of the rack. You may have to hold the rack from the opposite side that you wish to remove.

Getting a good crimp on the new end was the hardest part. Grinding the jaws narrower on a large pair of vice grips would give you the perfect tool.


a few tips

1] if you can, try to take the rack out all the way. Seems involved, but will make job easier. remove spare tire holder and DON"T forget the brake line riveted to the tire holder, that you must snip loose (on pre88 for sure, can't remember on 88, since I cut mine a long time ago).

be sure to tamp a small screwdriver into the steering U-joint to hold it open so you can remove the rack, AND re-insert it easily.

2] if you don't have a pitmann arm puller, buy one for the steering links. Cheap, and 10-times faster than the fork. Just buy one. Small size.

3] if you have the bronze bushing, I have seen only one and had no luck getting it out. but I didn't try like my life depended on it. Use Wd-40, use carb cleaner, etc. Not sure just how tight that bugger is.

4] plastic is easy, but it has three tabs that hold it in. use three very thin and sharp table knives, or something simliar-- and slip one under each tab and it will fall out once all are loose.

5] don't worry about those fancy strap-ties holding the bellows--cut them off. Plastic cable ties will do until you can get it to a shop and have someone clamp some new ones on.

6] you'll need 2 honking -big crescent wrenches to remove the inner tie rod from the rack. rather like cone-bearings on a bike. I think one has to be larger than 30mm.

7] DON"T worry about losing your alignment, if you leave the outer tie rods alone, and remove the inner only, your aligment is preserved.

_MWS ----------------

FIERO\Suspension\front\Wheel Bearings
Would suggest a thorough examination of control arm bushings, balljoints, and tierods. Improperly adjusted wheel bearings can give the same symptoms as all of the above and are an often overlooked item. One or more would cause your car to feel too sensitive.


First of all, bearings take a lot to wear out! Usually you can get away with cleaning the old ones in gasoline and repacking them with grease, unless:

a) there are heat marks on either the bearing or the race (the beveled piece it rides in)

b) there are pits on the rollers of the bearing

c) obvious physical damage, like missing rollers, etc.

The front bearings can be taken out once you remove the tire & brake caliper. In the center of the rotor is a small "cup". Using a screwdriver and hammer, *lightly* tap around the base. You are trying to "pop" this center piece off - not pop a hole through it. ;-) Once off, you will see a greasy cotter pin that must be removed, then a castle nut, and then a washer. Take your *clean* hands and wiggle the rotor from side to side and the outer bearing will literally come out and fall on the floor. Gently slide the rotor off the spindle, flip it over, and you will see the inner bearing.

Once you remove the grease seal you will be able to pop this bearing out as well. Putting everything back together is generally the reverse of the above, except that you have to repack the bearings. After they are clean, or even if you bought new ones - take a gob of grease and drop it into the palm of your hand. Hold the bearing like a donut and "scoop" the grease so that you are working it into the bearing. Use plenty of grease. The more the merrier. :-)

When putting the castle nut back on, be sure not to tighten it to the point where the wheel doesn't turn. This is a crucial point, and requires good judgment. Too tight and the bearing will overheat. Too loose and it will be sloppy.

Rule of thumb - tighten it up just to the point where the wheel begins to *really* drag, then back the nut off 1 or 2 "teeth" (the points at the top of the nut) until you can pin it with the *new* cotter pin. (Don't cheap out on the cotter pin. Use a new one *every* time!) ----------------

The 1984-87 Pontiac Fiero did not come with a rear antisway (anti-roll) bar. Adding one can greatly reduce body roll and improve handling performance. Detailed directions and lots of photos at the FieroZone

I really recommend, if nothing else, the cradle bushings for the 84-87 fieros, they tighten up the rear of the car and make a dramatic difference in the driving feel.(Fiero Store about $69.)

however, I remember people mentioning squeaks starting after a short time, I've heard that it helps to sand the polyurathane bushings to remove the shiny surface. Helps reduce the possibilities of squeaks. Rodney Dickman
Rodney Dickman Custom Fiero Parts


poly bushings-
The grease I used was recommended by Ed Parks of The Fiero Factory. It is NAPA "Sil-Glyde" , part number 765-1351. It is a silicone grease. Do you have NAPA auto stores in Belgium? Another list member said to use teflon grease (marine grease) Auto supply and boat stores have this. It is used for boat trailer wheel bearings that get submerged in water frequently. This grease doesn't get washed off.Have fun,Jeff Miller


The rear bearings are a sealed unit. They consist of a hub and bearing assembly,and average around $100 per side. They don't need to be repacked with grease. To remove one of these is a little more difficult. You remove the wheel and brake caliper. The rotor will come right off at this point. You will need an axle nut socket to remove the *big* nut in the center. Also, this is a job for an air gun. I feel bad for all of those who have done it by hand!! Once the nut is off, turn it the opposite way and thread it back onto the axle shaft. The base side of the nut should be facing you. Take a hammer and whack the nut. This will drive the splined axle out of the bearing. Remove the nut when the axle is loose. 3 Torx head bolts hold the bearing assembly onto the spindle. They can be accessed by turning the bearing so that the outer "U-groove" is directly over each one. You have to remove each Torx bolt one at a time. After you remove the Torx nuts, tap on the bearing with the hammer and it will come right out.

Eric '86 SE V-6 (For Sale!)
'88 Base Coupe w/Quad 4 (Leaving next week!)
'88 Formula '86 Pro-street GT
rear wheel bearings...


I think I've got one going out on the left rear. For a long time I blamed the tires but when I put new ones on it didn't go away. What's the deal with the rears? They hafta be rediculously hard to do... right?-Fred

Not really. You have to pull the axle stub out of the bearing cartridge, and you'll need a really big torque wrench to retorque the axle nut. The cartridge itself probably can't be rebuilt, so a new bearing assembly will probably cost you in the neighborhood of a hundred bucks or so. I don't think you have to undo all of the suspension, maybe just the lower control arm.JazzMan

I have put up my instructions for adding the JC Whitney Rear Sway Bar to the rear of your 84-87 Fiero. (probably similar to the other rear bars sold by Addco and The Fiero Store.


FIERO\Suspension\rear\bump steer
20 plus pages not including diagrams. An excellent explanation. Good reading. Added to and expanded on my knowledge from the ADCCO book "what is handling and how to get it" and Herb Adams Chassis book recommended by Michael Smith, some time ago.

Really helps one understand why Rayne's (relatively cost effective)

Rayne MotorSports new rear torque steer and bump steer correction for the 84-87 Fiero's is so elegant. Corrects torque steer with bushings and bump steer with correct geometry. May also reduce unsprung weight with the tubular control arms, not sure.

Additionally, his new approach keeps us from robbing the cradles from '88's' to improve our rear suspension. And seems a lot easier than dropping the engine and manufacturing new motor mounts and potentially water pipe across front of engine.

Now, I just have to save my pennies, and a lot of them

Bruce ------------------- ----------------

Remove the cigarette lighter panel and ground out the A & B terminals (closest to the passenger side). Now hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire and start the car. Point the timing light towards the timing mark indicator on the harmonic balancer and see where the timing mark is.

It should be set at 10* BTC......this is the next to last line on the indicator. If the timing is off you will need to loosen the distributor hold down and rotate the distributor to adjust it to the proper setting (either clockwise or counterclockwise). That's it. You will likely need to remove the coil to gain access to the distributor hold down, but that's not a big deal.


mark the harmonic balancer (engine off please - let's not lose fingers over this!) with either soap stone or some white paint. The balancer should have 3 grooves in it, but only one of them is really wide (when compared to the other two). If he has to put a wrench on the engine to turn it over a few times, that's fine too. The correct mark might be on the top at that point. Mark up the wider groove so he can see it and then basically follow the steps on the trunk panel emission decal. (Take a base idle reading, then jump the ALDL connector and re-read the same marks, etc ..) The mark he emphasized is TDC (top dead center). If I'm not mistaken, each "point" on the timing tab is 2°, and when he loosens up the distributor and twists the heck outta it, he'll find a suitable reading.

Eric '88 Yellow Formula '86 Pro-street GT BoomTastic.Com

A trick that's easier than averaging #1 and #4 is to clip the timing light onto the coil wire. This will cause the light to flash too often, but only two of the flashes (#1 and #4) happen when the timing mark is near the timing tab.

Firing Order: L4 - 1, 3, 4, 2 V6 - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 V6 Front Bank (Firewall) : 2, 4, 6 Rear Bank (Trunk) : 1, 3, 5 ----------- ----------------

<< Before you dive into the engine, check your compression. If it's ok, maybe that's not your problem. At 118,000 miles on my 88 GT, the star wheel on the top end of the distributor shaft moved. Just remove the distributor cap and rotor and see if you can turn the star wheel by hand. This is a very quick and easy test. I couldn't believe this could happen, but a friend who works at a dealer said he has had about 30 of these! This is much quicker and cheaper than the timing chain. He also said timing chains in the 2.8/3.1 engines really last a long time.

Good luck. >> I have but one question for you . . .WHERE DO YOU LIVE? I would like to come over and shake your hand! You hit the nail right on the head! I bypassed the compression check and went straight to the distributor, popped the cap and rotor and sure enough the star wheel (rotating magnet) could be moved by hand.

That will definitely throw off your timing! Thank you, thank you thank you! You made my day!

Oops, please allow this humble writer one more question? Can this condition be fixed without the purchase of another distributor?

The wires I got (8.8 mm spiral coil RFI suppression wires....not the carbon cores they also have) are first quality wires. They are low resistance (150 ohms per foot) ----------------
Jay, if it won't start with a "jolt" of starting fluid (not good to use), then it probably has no spark. When it stops the next time, immeadiately pull the coil wire off the coil, spin the engine and check for spark running down the tower. If none, most likely cause is module. But, the coil, pick-up coil, pigtail between, and ECM are all heat sensitive. Ed Parks (The Fiero Factory) ------------- ----------------

The Isuzu 5 speed was used on 4 cylinder engines. The Getrag 5 speed was used on the V6s. The Getrag 5 speed was designed by Getrag and built by Muncie.
If you have a 4 spd, it is a Muncie (used in all 84's & 85-86 V6's). If you have a 5 spd, it could be an Isuzu (85-88 4 cyls) or a Muncie/Getrag (more commonly called just Getrag)(used in a few 86 V6's and all 87-88 V6's).
The Getrag does not have the 2 shifting cables running side by side over the slave cyl, and uses two seperate brackets to hold the cables in place. The 4 spd and Isuzu have both cables side by side, over the slave cyl, and held by a single bracket.
The cable that moves a lever up and down is called the select cable. The other is the shift cable.
If trans is loose, they can be easily identified by their looks. The 4 spds have no removable end caps toward the drivers rear wheel (one piece casting), the Isuzu has a removable casting about 2" deep and has 3 nuts on top of the case where the end cap bolts to the case, and the Getrag has a steel end plate only about 1/4" thick and also has a dipstick (either unscrews or lifts up) Posting to list, since we have been asked this many times. Hope this helps. Ed Parks (The Fiero Factory) ------------
The Isuzu has both shifting cables parallel to each other. The Getrag one goes down. One goes over the top. The Getrag has a steel end plate. The Getrag is the only Fiero trans that has a steel end plate.
Rodney Dickman
Rodney Dickman Custom Fiero Parts
My 88GT 5 speed has over 160k on it and the axle bearings in the transaxle housing are a bit worn. I presume that these stabilizers will extend the life without going into the housing to replace the internal bearings. Can you tell me how these new units are installed and how they attach to the housing? Perhaps there are others on the list who would appreciate learning details...............
These axle stabilizer bearing/seal assemblies replace the original transmission seals.
With the original seal removed you coat the surfaces with locktite and drive them into the case. They have a knurled surface that secures them in place. The locktite also acts like a sealer to prevent leaks.
If your axle bearings are showing some wear I'm not sure if these would help extend the life of the transmission although it sounds like a good idea. If some people start trying these for that purpose and it is beneficial I'm sure the list would like to hear about it.
I have not really seen a need for these on auto transmissions yet. Just the manual transmissions. The differential bearings are a problem and having this second bearing on each side of the transmission will greatly extend the life of the differential bearings in my opinion.
Rodney Dickman
Rodney Dickman Custom Fiero Parts
-------------------------------- This is from Doug Chase, in Seattle - and I hope he doesn't mind me copying his investigations:
...request for hard numbers.
Here they are. I don't have the Isuzu stuff on hand, but here are all the other manual trans ratios.

1st , 2nd , 3rd , 4th , 5th,,FinalDrive
MY8 3.53 1.95 1.24 0.73 ---- 3.32 1984 Econo
M19 3.53 1.95 1.24 0.73 ---- 4.10 1984 SE
M17 3.31 1.95 1.24 0.81 ---- 3.65 1985 - 86 V6
MG2 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.61 1986 - 88 V6
Overall ratio:
MY8 12.78 6.47 4.12 2.42
M19 14.47 8.00 5.08 2.99
M17 12.08 7.11 4.52 2.96
MG2 12.64 7.40 4.98 3.39 2.60
And the M17 with M19 final drive (4.10):
13.57 8.00 5.08 3.32
i'll tell you the ultimate transmission for a fiero. Well almost ultimate.
the isuzu 5 speed. you take the 3.35 final drive out of it and put in a 3.83 final drive. That gives you 1 and 2nd gears that are almost as low as the ones in the 4.10 ratio 4 speed. 3 and 4th that are lower, and a 5th gear thats better for cruising than the 3.65 ratio 4 speed in my 86 gt. everyone says that the transmission is weak, but i know a guy with a v-8 who speed shifts and bangs gears with an isuzu.
The only better tranny would be a getrag 5 speed with a 3.92 final drive. good luck finding that final drive, people want big money for those gears. i'm putting the isuzu with 3.83 gears in my v-6 car.

The way i look at it, if i breaks i can get another for like 50-100 bucks, they're the most common of any fiero transmission, they came in all manual 4 cyl fieros from 85-88.
Mike LeCompte 86 GT with nitrous

TCC solenoid is sticking, gonna have to replace it... Here is how it works... It takes some time but I will try to explain it here.
on a v6 take off the air tube take off the bolt that holds the trans cooler line in place, take out all the bolts that you can reach from the top on the side cover of the trans.
Jack up the car take the wheel off, remove the black clips that hold the rubber splash guard out and move it out of the way, take out the rest of the bolts on the side cover.
vI recommend taking the 2 bottom ones out first,won't get so much oil on your hands. Remove cover from the top.Now you can see the valve body and aux valve body and solenoid also the switch.Switch should be replaced, selnoid is held in by a torq head bolt,Sorry I don't remember size.
The gasket that needs to be replaced is under the alu.cover 10 mm socket and 1 13 mm socket to take these out. Find a good trans shop with the cover and ask them for a new gasket and if they could modify it. They should know what to do if you describe the problem that you have. And ask them for the selnoid most carry them in stock.
Cost of the part without shipping is about $14 switch should be about $7 dollars there cost plus shipping and mark up. Whole time about 3 hr. I will do mine any day now mine is shorted out,will not lock up at all and blows fuse
Beau Hunter

. Someone please save this for future repost. I don't know how.
There are basically two potential problems with any clutch system. 1st is "no pull" and 2nd is no disengagement.
"No pull" is always mechanical, and is usually the disc worn down or the friction material missing. Requires replacement. Smart thing is to also replace the plate and the release bearing, since it is so much work to remove the transaxle.
Worn disc is caused by long term use (slippage), abusive use(slippage), or a mechanical malfunction (slippage), which would be: release bearing shaft binding in its bushings, or release bearing binding on its slide collar. Both conditions result in a partially applied plate that allows slippage (wear). All clutch replacements should include inspection/correction of these conditions, or premature wear will happen.
No disengagement is trickier, since this can be caused by hydraulic or mechanical malfunction.
Start at the begining, the pedal. It should be an inch higher then the brake. If not, then look for the standoff bracket (the squared U riveted to the pedal) to be bent. Use will bend it toward the center and toward the rear of the car (away from the clutch master cylinder). You need this inch for a full hydraulic push of fluid. This bracket can very often be bent back into shape with a large set of channel lock pliers.
Much maligned pedal is seldom bent.
If there is slack at the top of the pedal, until resistance is felt, then there is also not enough push. This is usually caused by the master cylinder groument missing, or the pushrod being bent. Make sure pushrods offset hole is in the "up" position.
While in this area (upside down on the drivers floor), pull the master cyl boot loose and check for any moisture. If any is found, then master cylinder rear seal is leaking. Replace it, unless you want a 50/50 chance on rebuilding it. Bench bleed before installing. If all is OK, then slowly have the clutch pedal depressed, while watching the resevoir fluid (cap off). If fluid level rises any at all, then check valve in master cylinder is allowing some pressure to bypass, and you will not have a full disengagement.
This completes the mechanical and hydraulic inspection at the front.
In the rear, clear area above the slave cylinder of air intake tubes. Have the clutch slowly depressed again. Some movement of the slave cylinder is normal, but you are looking for two things. Broken mounting bracket, and length of pushrod stroke. (At this point we have removed oil pump drive shafts, drum brake adjusters, valve pushrods, various modified bolts, and a piece of broomstick, all in an attempt to get the last 1/16 of stroke.)
Stroke should be at least 15/16". 7/8 will not allow full release. We measure this with the pedal depressed, tape measure against clutch lever, then read tape measure "backwards" as pedal is released. Do this several times, as it is easy for tape to slip.
If measurement is good, then so are hydraulics. If not, then pull slave cylinder boot loose to check for moisture. If found, replace slave cylinder, or the 50/50 rebuild rule applies here also. If no moisture is found at the front or rear, you can reasonably expect that someone has replaced a unit, and not done a "proper" bleeding.
But, wait a minute!
84-86 4 spd and 5 spd Fiero's (except 86 getrag) were delivered with a stamped steel clutch lever that has a plastic block that the slave cylinder pushrod pushes against to rotate the release bearing shaft. This lever can crack where it is clamped to the shaft, and the plastic block can "push through". Many expensive clutch jobs have been done, when only this lever was the cause of" no disengagement". Replacements, 87-88, and all getrags are cast.
Further disengagement problems will be inside the bellhousing, and require removing the transaxle. On 4 spd cars, a broken/bent release bearing fork will usually make much noise and make the clutch pedal feel as though it has a brick under it. It could be on 4 spds and will be on both 5 spds, a broken disc dampner spring, that has a piece lodged in the plate release springs, that make it feel that you are pushing against a brick.
This completes mechanical and hydraulic inspection in the back.
Our bleeding procedure is not found in Clymer, Chilton, Haynes, or Helms (Pontiac) service manuals. Therefore, must not be authorized, but has worked without fail for over 8 years.
Jack car from front about 1 foot (until master cyl is above height of slave). Remove resevoir cap. Open (not remove) bleeder on slave cyl. Gravity feed 1/2 pint of hydraulic (brake) fluid. If gravity doesn't start fluid movement, SLOWLY depress clutch pedal until fluid starts to move. After 1/2 pint has gone through system, close bleeder.
Needle nosed vise grips work best (especially 6 cyl, which may require removal of slave cyl from bracket). Clamp vise grip pliers to slave cyl pushrod. Pull pushrod into the barrel of the slave cyl, while at the same time "cracking" the bleeder. The bleeder is at the wrong end of all three different slave cylinders. Air can be trapped at the end where the pushrod is, and must be pulled to the bleed valve.
Check resevoir after first "pull" (can be nearly empty). We repeat this 5 times, or until no more bubbles appear. After 6 times, if there is still a bubble,
Start over at the clutch pedal. Step 1, along time ago.
Caution: do not shave (cut, machine) the flywheel. Hydraulic clutch systems typically have 0 to .003 clearence between the face of the release bearing and the fingers on the clutch plate. Removing material from the flywheel will move the plate that much further away from the release bearing, perhaps causing a non-release condition. Remanufactured clutches will usually have as much as 1/16" variation in the height of the plate fingers. Also resulting in a non-release condition. If the release bearing fork is too worn, then the same applies.
Hydraulic clutch systems are called self adjusting, because they can only move a predetermined amount of fluid. The spring pressure of the plate will override the hydraulic pressure, so, extending the slave cyl pushrod length will not "adjust" the system.
This completes our clutch thesis, so if you or anyone are still around, please copy for reposting. (Permission certainly granted)!
Sorry for the length, just had a couple extra hours. But,
Hope this helps, someone.
Aren't sticks more fun?
Ed Parks
Wk Ph (256) 420-5391
8710B Hwy 53
Toney, Ala 35773
If there's air in the line, it will compress a bit (whereas the hydraulic fluid does not compress), and that will usually be enough to prevent the clutch from getting a full throw from the slave cylinder. Bleeding the clutch line is a rather simple process, but it does require two people to do it. ------------
Guy, I took my slave cylinder off of my 86 SE today. Do not attempt to remove the heat shield separately. You need to remove the whole bracket. The heat shield is connected to the slave cylinder mounting bolts. TO remove the bracket. It should be two 15MM bolts. One is to the right of the slave by about 1", this bolt is vertical. The other is underneath and slightly to the left, this bolt is horizontal. I had to remove the air breather to the air cleaner housing to create enough room for my wrench. Once you pull the whole bracket apart, the whole assembly will become self explanatory.
Also, I received an off list mail from a member who is a mechanic. He told me that his shop would not warranty a repair unless they were able to replace both the master and the slave at the same time. My slave blew its seals the moment I got a good master cylinder installed. Food for thought.
Any clutch operation begins with the pedal. If it is not positioned 1" above the brake pedal, no amount of bleeding will help. The master cyl will simply not have enough throw to push the amount of fluid necessary.
The standoff bracket (a squared "U" riveted to the pedal) that the master cyl rod attaches to, will bend toward the rear and center of the car with use, and is usually misdiagnoised as the aluminum pedal problem (not often any problem at all). It can be corrected by bending it back to the proper configuration or by replacing the pedal (standoff bracket is part of new pedal).
If pedal/bracket is OK, then raise front of car with jack until master cyl is clearly above height of slave cyl. Remove reservoir cap and open bleeder on slave. If fluid does not begin to flow (by gravity) then SLOWLY push clutch pedal until fluid does.
Pour 1/2 pint of fluid into/thru reservoir, and then close bleeder. There will be no air in the master cyl or hydraulic line at this point.

However, most Fiero hydraulic clutch problems are caused by air trapped in the slave cylinder at the pushrod end. After completing the above checks/procedures, if there is still not at least 15/16th inch of slave cyl travel, then the pushrod must be pulled into the slave cyl barrel. Open the bleeder as you are pulling and make sure the bleeder is closed before releasing the pushrod.

6 cyl's need needle nose vise grips to clamp on to the pushrod (heat shield is in the way) unless you want to remove the slave cyl. 4 cyl is easier with regular vise grips.

We pull the pushrod into the slave barrel 5-6 times, or until no air bubbles come out of the bleeder..

If neither the master and slave cyl have air leaks (and there is no mechanical problem), this is a foolproof method of bleeding that is NOT in any manual, but it works EVERY time.

Ed Parks (The Fiero Factory) ----------------

The "Fiero" Getrag was made by Muncie and designed by Getrag. The ID was HM-282 during the Fiero production years and later changed to 5TM40 around 1989 or so. The same model number was used for general GM FWD applications. We all know the "Fiero" Getrag has a different shift bracket layout. There were also variations on how the clutch slave cylinder mounts. All under under the general HM-282 model name.
After GM and Chrysler merged Muncie (GM) with New Process (Chrysler), the new company was called New Venture Gear. This happened in the early 90s. The ID was changed once again to NVT550. So the "Muncie Getrag" or HM-282, 5TM40 and NVT550 are all the same Getrag design and Muncie manufactured 5-speed transaxle, with minor variations over the years.
The "Fiero Getrag" is a special version of the general HM-282 design.
The "Getrag 284" was designed by Getrag and also manufactured by Getrag as they had set up shop by then after following BMW to North Carolina. So the Getrag 284 was both designed and built by Getrag under the name of Getrag Gears of North America. This transaxle had a production run between 1991 and 1993. No V6 powered GM FWD cars had manual transaxles after 1993, but that may change soon. That's why Getrag Gears of NA in North Carolina doesn't know about the 282, or the special "Fiero Getrag" version, as they did not build it.
The latest Getrag 5-speed transaxle is called the F-23 and is designed by Getrag, but built in Bari, Italy. A tiptronic autoshift version is also in the works. So you have:
Muncie/Getrag HM-282 or 5TM40 or NVT550. The "Fiero Getrag" is a special version of this unit.
Getrag/Getrag 284 Bari/Getrag F-23
Clear as mud, eh.
So..., anybody up for a tiptronic Fiero?
Gary Ohst
Lots of people have tried to split the case on a Getrag. They pry and even ruin the cases trying by not knowing the tricks. You DO have to take the detents out and MOST importantly you have to remove the t-bushing. After that it comes apart with little effort.
Rodney Dickman
Rodney Dickman Custom Fiero Parts
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- manufactured at the Hydra-matic-operated manual transmission plant, Muncie, Indiana
- rated input torque of 170 ft.. lbs (future capacity of 200 ft. lbs)
- dry weight of 88 lbs
- capacity is 2 quarts for Fieros (and A bodies), 5 pints for J, L, & N car lines
(Source: Muncie 5-speed Manual Transaxle Product Service Training Guide, #1700404-1 of April 1987)

FIERO\Wheels and Tires
Consumer Reports (March '98) did a study of touring/performance tires. The ratings: 1. Michelin Energy MXV4- $126 2. Dunlop D60 A2- $76 3. Goodyear Eagle GT+4- $108 4. Pirelli P6000- $100 5. BF Goodrich T/A HR4- $78 6.General XP 2000 H4- $70 7. Yokohama Avid H4- $77 8. Goodyear Eagle LS- $133 9. Bridgestone Turanza H- $98 10. Firestone Firehawk Touring LH- $96

For what it's worth, I chose the BF Goodrich because they had the best combination of price and performance. Hope that helps.


lug covers-
WHEEL_TITE! brand name, stock # 29954 - GM 3/4"hex, black plastic cap packaged by Motormite Mfg Div of R&b Inc. P.O. Box 1800, Colmar, PA 18915-1800

The rims off of an early '90's Grand Prix are 16", look good, and the Fiero center cap fits as a bonus.

Fiero bolt pattern is 5X100mm . ----
In a Front Wheel drive offset, 5x100mm bolt pattern and 57mm centerbore, there are LOTS of rims available

There is a site: that give information on bolt patterns and such, of all the popular cars. You can look to see what cars use the 5x100 circle. Remember that they will all be FWD rims.

that will fit on a Fiero? Is it a standard Pontiac bolt pattern?
They are the standard 5x100 bolt pattern that are used on many Pontiacs and other makes of cars with a front wheel drive offset.

On both my 86 SE and my 86GT, I have the honeycomb Fiero wheels with 245 x 50 x 15 and they fit nicely and the best part is they are the exact height as the stock tire/wheel combination so my speedometer is still accurate.

Troy, the Fiero 14" alloy will be OK on the 88. The look-a-like Grand Am/Sunbird will not, as they are not as wide, spokes are almost smooth with the edge of the wheel lip. and will hit the caliper (only applies to 88, they will fit on 84-87).

Fiero wheels have the spokes inset from the lip about 3/4". Just make sure someone has not put Grand Am on the 84. Happens quite often since they look the same, except for the spoke to rim difference.

Ed Parks ----------
Here is a list of most of the cars that have the same bolt pattern as the Fiero: GM: Beretta Grand Am Cavalier Sunbird Calais Century Celebrity Skylark Ciera Corsica Mopar: Daytona Charger Sunbird Acclaim Spirit That's most of them. Grand Prix will NOT fit the Fiero. Your better off buying new rims because most of these cars have shitty rims! Gary

Beretta.Corsica and Cavalier, I think.Grand Am.Dodge NeonChrysler Sebring (convertible only)Dodge DaytonaChrysler LeBaron That's most of them.

Most anything with a 5 x 100 mm bolt pattern, with FWD offset. Raydar


From came this very interesting and useful site to compare tire sizes

Just plug in the current size of tire you are using, then choose the size you are thinking about, and in a flash you find out the diameter comparison, and the variance to your speedo due to rolling circumference! For example if I put in 215/60/15 as the typical FieroGT/Formula rear tire size, I find that that the closest size in a 45 series is a 235/45/17 which is 79.566 in circumference vs the stock 79.035, which causes a .673% too slow reading on the speedo.

Archie uses 215/45/17's on the fronts and 235/45/17's on the rears

Ken Stolz has 215/45/17's fronts and 225/45/17's, rear

Don Burns has 215/45/17's front and 245/45/17's rear

Mike Valentine suggests same as Archie is using

Pat Szewczyk reports that he has read that 235/40/17's on the front work , but its tight and the tire just touches the lower A arm at max turn. On the rear, a 255/40/17 that clears.

I've had 255/40/17's rear and 225/45/17's front with no rubbing etc.

v Seen 255/40/17's on all corners! 215/40/17's work fine. I'm going to try 245/34/17's all round for my next set of 17" rims.

If you're interessted in 18's: 225/40/18's work great. 215/35/18's are another option. My favorite is 255/30/18's rear and 225/35/18's front.
Chris Fieroman Foreman

also go to and look at the TeamDynamics rims. they come in three offsets and you ask them to drill bolt pattern for your car. Very cool. with a 6.5" ot 7" wide rim, I'd get the 45mm for the front, and 35mm for rear. If you try to go wider in the rear (only the 18" rims go 8" wide), get the 45mmm offset, also. it will keep it from sticking out.


. Goodyear has a department that will do a national search for new old stock Goodyear tires. Those should not be too hard to find. Expect to pay last list price and some extra for inflation. 1-800-321-2136. If you happen to get someone that can not help say thanks and call back. Apparently some in that department are not so bright. Rodney Dickman
Rodney Dickman Custom Fiero Parts

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Ghost Wipers--
I too had the same problem with my wipers ( mind of thier own ). Heres what I did. Simply pop open your front compartment and find you wiper motor. there is a black plastic cover held on by a small (10 mil ?) screw. Unplug the wires going to it and unbolt the cover.

Now remove and replace the electronics with another one ( you will have to get this off another fiero). It should fix your wipers. If this doesnt then there is a pulse modulator located under your dash I beleive it is ribbed and silver. You may have to replace it as well.steven vincent

Most of the times that this happens, it is caused by a faulty or incorrectly aligned "park switch". This switch, which tells the wipers when they are in the off, or "park" position, is part of the black plastic cover that is on the wiper motor itself.

If you take the cover off, there is a semi-circular piece of plastic that controls when to turn the wipers on and off, depending upon position. Sometimes they are just a hair off, and by turning the ignition "on" the wipers will give one phantom sweep as they try to settle themselves. The cure, from what I remember, was to replace the wiper motor cover and switch as a unit. Hope this helps! Eric '86 SE V-6

On the wiper motor is a black plastic cover. Under it you will find a semi-circular piece called a "cam", which presses against the "park switch". This park switch tells the wipers when they are in the "off" position. If the switch is the slightest bit off, the wipers will "park" themselves when power is applied.
Eric '88 Yellow Formula '86 Pro-street GT BoomTastic.Com

It could be two or three items... depending on the Fiero. I have some info at It covers the 84 fiero if I remember right.

There is a module under the dash that controls the delay wiper. You can by-pass it and your wipers will not sweep across on startup... OR it could be a faulty stalk

OR if you have 85-88 Fiero, it could be the circuit board inside the wiper motor. take out the board, clean it and check the solder joints.

Variable speed wipers work only on high.

1. Remove printed circuit board.

2. Clean relay (RL1) contacts.

3. Bend lower contact up, ever so slightly, to ensure arm contact applies full pressure before arm bottoms on coil.

4. Reinstall circuit board.

After the above, variable speed was fully restored.
Keep on revvin' Bill "wshaw"

If your talking about replacing the whole turn signal stalk you don't need to remove anything other than the stalk itself. I replaced mine about a month ago because it was physically broken and the cruise didnt' work.

I tore the column apart because I thought I had read somewhere you needed to get to a clip that held the stalk on. I was WRONG! All you have to do is pull straight out rather hard and it pops loose.

Find the connector at the bottom of the colum and unplug it. I was able to snake the new wire back through in less than 10 minutes with a little playing.

I think you can also unsnap the cover behind the stalk. I had the one on my 94 Camaro pop off when I was removing the lower dash panel. I think the Fiero has a similar style cover. The stalk from GM runs just over $100. They changed the part number on it from what is listed for the Fiero.

I can look the number up if someone really wants it. BTW...once I replaced the stalk my cruise worked like new! Least I didn't waste a 100 bux for nothin! wade shindorf

Anco 31-18s

You can get the multi-function switch from The Fiero Store or GM, about the same price either way. Putting it in; now that's a different and very time consuming story. Tearing into that steering column is not a fun thing to do due to the horn contacts. Need two special tools; steering wheel puller and shaft lock depressor add lots of time and nimber small fingers. My wipers give me a swipe when its cool and I use the turn signals. The break is in the multi function wiring. I have the new one and tore into the column once but did not replace it as I could not get it to swipe no matter how much I wiggled the wring. Later, Lanny 85 SilverGT, 88 Med Met Red GT, 88 Red GT(3.2 rebuild in slow process) Tucson, AZ AZ Fieros, FOCOA, FOA

Find yourself a 8D will do nicely. Near the hinge on the wiper arm you should see a small hole. If you lift the arm up as far as it will go and stick the nail through the hole till it comes out the other side you can wiggle the arm back and forth till it comes off. Pull out the nail and go to the other one. when you put them back on just line them up where you want them to be parked and press it back on all the way.